[mikegre1]

Just what is meant by "heel and toe", anyway?

[minicoopersgirl]

Do a little reading....
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.lasso

PS - This is easy to do in the MINI!

[paulmon]

Quote:

Originally posted by mikegre1
Just what is meant by "heel and toe", anyway?

MiniCooperSGirl has posted the perfect link; however, in the MINI I've found that using the left edge of your right foot is easier than using the actual heel. That website shows the driver rotating their foot more than is needed. In fact rotating the foot isn't needed just slide the foot to the right a little with a little twist and you should be able to touch the gas pedal. With a little practice twisting your foot you'll get the hang of it. The pedals are so close in the MINI that this is a breeze to master in the MINI.

Oh, I'd practice this in a safe environment it can be very tricky at first, nothing worse than braking, bliping the throttle and then your foot slips from the brake and BANG! Be careful and have fun.

Nothing beats coming into a corner, braking, downshifting and matching the revs perfect for the corner.

Paul

[P.Phresh]

Somerthing I posted on another thread

When you're "blipping", you are "blipping" the throttle. During a downshift, especially coming into a corner, you're pushing in the clutch and your right foot will be pressing the brake, and at the same time with the side of your foot you will quickly pressand depress the gas pedal to get your revs up. This will enable a smooth downshift so your car remains balanced in the turn and then you can proceed to power out of a turn. If you are downshifting without this "blipping" of the throttle your car can become very erratic during the turn and can be dangerous, causing spin outs or oversteer. A good example to practice this in is during a yield. As you're approaching the yeild, you'll be travelling in 5th or 6th gear. At the beginning of your turn you will brake, then clutch, then begin shifting into 3rd. During the shift you "blip" the throttle, or quickly tap the gas pedal to bring your revs up so your car doesn't lurch forward or slow itself down with engine braking. Then finish your shift into 3rd and release the clutch while trail breaking into the turn. By the apex of the turn you should be able to power right out of it. All this should happen in a heartbeat, quick and smooth is the key. The shift into 3rd should be seamless, one smooth movement with little time spent in neutral.

Does any of that make sense?

If anyone likes I can explain double clutching aswell.

[mikegre1]

So what's the difference between double clutching and heel and toeing?

[Keith]

I also find the side of the foot works better than the heel. I am not sure whether to keep the heel on the floor or not. Having my heel on the floor limits the amount of throttle movement in the "blip" but lifting the heel reduces the amount of control I have making the whole process less smooth. What do others do?

[2nd Mini]

Double clutching is the practice of pushing in and letting out the clutch twice: pushing in once take the car out of gear, letting out to bring the intermediate transmission shafts up to the speed they would need to be at in order to allow smooth shifting into the new gear, then pushing in a second time to put the trans into gear and letting out to apply the gear. These days, the synchronizers do that for you.

2

[paulmon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
I also find the side of the foot works better than the heel. I am not sure whether to keep the heel on the floor or not. Having my heel on the floor limits the amount of throttle movement in the "blip" but lifting the heel reduces the amount of control I have making the whole process less smooth. What do others do?

I leave my heal on the floor, as you have said without your heal on the floor their is a lack of control and balance. Try rotating your ankle, that's all I do.

Paul

[P.Phresh]

When I heel toe, I'll keep my heel on the floor. The pedals are close enough and at the same level, when the brake is applied, that you don't have to twist your leg, and that's a good thing that's been designed about the MINI, they obviously had the driver in mind when they designed the pedal layout. When I apply the brake, I'll have the left half of my foot on the brake, then the right half of my foot will be on the throttle. To blip the throttle I pivot my foot so it presses down on the throttle a bit for just a quick sec. The pivot point/axis being the line that goes down the center of my foot, from toe to heel, which also is where the end of my brake pedal is. "Heel toe"ing has become second nature to me now, I do it without even thinking about it. Once you've been practicing it consciously it'll be very simple to do unconsciously. You'll have a hard time trying NOT to do it. A bit of a warning though, "heel toe"ing will lower you MPG, because your engine will have that extra blip of the throttle.

DOUBLE CLUTCHING
The sole purpose of double clutching is to keep your revs up while doing a downshift. It's mutch faster and better for your clutch. It's faster because when you are normally downshifting you will have to let the clutch up slowly and cuases more wear on your clutch also this method slows you down. Double clutching will allow you to have faster acceleration while already travelling at moderate to higher speeds. The benefit of double clutching is that you won't slow your car down, but you'll be in a lower gear to get that extra acceleration because your car will be in its power band.

Scenario:
You're travelling down a two lane street, with oncoming traffic in the opposite lane, moving at approximately 80 km/h and you're in 5th gear. You get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle travelling at 60km/h. You need to get around this guy and you're now driving behind him at 60 km/h and you're still in 5th gear. You see the opposite lane has traffic approaching but you can make it around the slow car if you move fast. Also there is traffic building up behind you and is right on your bumper. You will have to double clutch to get into a lower gear, for better acceleration, without slowing your car down at all. Then you'll be able to move around him.

So you'll be travelling at 60km/h in 5th gear now, with your RPMs reading at about 2 (x1000). To double clutch you will press the clutch in, then you will shift into neutral, and release the clutch. Your RPMs still reading 2 you will press down on the gas, called blipping the throttle, to bring your RPMs up to about 3. You can press the throttle all the way down to the floor, just stomp on it, just don't leave the throttle pressed down. Just push down to the floor then release right away. With your RPMs reading 3 you're ready to downshift into a lower gear, you will engage the clutch again, shift into 3rd gear, and release the clutch. Once you've released the clutch you shouldn't feel the car make any sudden jolts. All you will hear is the engine working at a higher RPM. If the car jolts suddenly, you have rev matched incorrectly. If your car throws you forward out of your seat, then your RPMs were too low. If your car pushes you into your seat or you chirp the tires, then your RPMs were too high. If you've done it correctly and everything is smooth you should still be travelling at 60 km/h and now in 3rd gear with your RPMs reading 3. Now just give it gas and pass the slow civic... er... I mean vehicle.

All these movements should be quick and smooth. From the beginning of the motion, the engaging of the clutch, to the end of the process, releasing the clutch, it should only take 1 second, and 2 seconds at most.

To practice this you can try it on a long, straight, empty road. Try going from 6th gear to 4th gear, or 5th to 4th. Try it at low speeds, the lower gear you pick, the higher RPMs you'll need.

Double Clutching at a glance:
-engage clutch
-shift to neutral
-release clutch
-blip the throttle
-engage clutch
-shift to lower gear
-release clutch

and that's why it's called double clutching, you engage the clutch twice.

tip: If you want to make it faster you can begin the next motion before the previous motion ends. ie, begin shifting before your clutch is completely pressed to the floor.

[Logan5]

Years of driving air cooled VWs will cure you of having to keep your heel on the floor of the car. In the old VWs, the pedals are floor mounted, making it VERY difficult to keep the heel on the floor for anything. I have to say, though, that I've never tried to heel and toe my Karmann!

I'm practicing diligently, but I'm still not sure if I'm doing it right. I tend to brake to hard as I concentrate on getting over to blip the throttle... damn heel and toe!

[Keith]

I don't think I agree with P.Phresh on double-clutching. You can match the revs perfectly with heel & toeing so you can let the clutch out quickly. As 2nd Mini said, double-clutching is all about matching the speed of the internal shaft in the gearbox. I can't see a need when the synchromesh works and it has to be slower to double-clutch than single-clutch.

[paulmon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
I don't think I agree with P.Phresh on double-clutching. You can match the revs perfectly with heel & toeing so you can let the clutch out quickly. As 2nd Mini said, double-clutching is all about matching the speed of the internal shaft in the gearbox. I can't see a need when the synchromesh works and it has to be slower to double-clutch than single-clutch.

I completely agree Keith, with a synchromesh gear box double clutching is pointless. However without synchro it's essential.

Paul

[supersport]

Double clutching with a syncro garbox is NOT pointless!!! Unless you like paying for transmission rebuilds and new clutches.
Double clutching will extend the life of the syncros and the clutch many times. No wear occurs with a good double clutch, and wear occurs everytime with a mashed in downshift.
Double clutching well and driving smoothly should allow the clutch and syncros to last as long as the engine does. I come from a family of smooth double-clutchers, and no one has ever worn out a clutch.
Go ahead and just mash it into a lower gear and pay dearly for it later (and sound like you can't drive).
...And why do people downshift when slowing to stop? -- just use the brakes! Nothing sounds more amateur (and wasteful)

[swamos]

Quote:

Originally posted by paulmon
I completely agree Keith, with a synchromesh gear box double clutching is pointless. However without synchro it's essential.

Paul

It is definately easier on the syncros, which will last longer. It also sounds pretty good

It is a waste going up to lights, though

[paulmon]

Quote:

Originally posted by supersport
Double clutching with a syncro garbox is NOT pointless!!! Unless you like paying for transmission rebuilds and new clutches.
Double clutching will extend the life of the syncros and the clutch many times. No wear occurs with a good double clutch, and wear occurs everytime with a mashed in downshift.
Double clutching well and driving smoothly should allow the clutch and syncros to last as long as the engine does. I come from a family of smooth double-clutchers, and no one has ever worn out a clutch.
Go ahead and just mash it into a lower gear and pay dearly for it later (and sound like you can't drive).
...And why do people downshift when slowing to stop? -- just use the brakes! Nothing sounds more amateur (and wasteful)

I was talking from a performace point of view not on the longevity of my tranny. If I wanted the tranny to live for ever and drive like a grandma I wouldn't have bought an MCS.

As for downshifting when slowing to a stop, I agree it's pointless unless your purpose in life is to have a little more fun. I blip and downshift at just about every stop and heal and toe going into just about every corner. I downshift to the stop to assure that I'm in the correct gear for the correct speed that the car is traveling. The bliping takes any engine braking out of the picture. I agree that downshifting without the blip and letting the engine provide some braking is a no no. If I need to speed up, aka the light just went green I'm already in 2nd or 3rd and ready to go. I match revs to a point that my passengers heads don't look like a "bobble head." I bought an MCS to have fun, not to baby it so that it will be perfect in 20 years. What's the point if you're not having fun?



Paul

[P.Phresh]

Try downshifting without the double clutch and then try it with a double clutch. I will guarantee you that your car will slow due to engine breaking without the double clutch. If you're doing the double clutch properly, smoothly and quickly, you should be doing it just as fast as downshifting without it, if not faster.

Try this, drive at about 60 km/h in 5th gear, then engage the clutch, shift it into 3rd gear, then release the clutch quickly, i.e. "pop" the clutch. What does your car do? What do you expect it to do?

Then, try the double clutch, and release exactly as what you're doing without the double clutch, "pop" the clutch to release it, it's what you should be doing anyways. What does your car do? What do you expect it to do?

There is a LARGE difference in "single-clutching" as compared to "double-clutching". You should be able to FEEL the difference in fact. Just try it.

[Keith]

Quote:

Originally posted by paulmon
....
I match revs to a point that my passengers heads don't look like a "bobble head."
....
Paul

I'd love to know how to stop the bobble-head effect on a standard transmission - I don't think it is possible. The Gs vs. time chart on my GTech/Pro shows, as expected, acceleration momentarily drops to zero on shifts when the clutch is in. The passenger gets thrown back and forth as the car goes from 0.5G to 0G to 0.4G on a shift - even if the shift only takes half a second. I put the GTech on a friends Corvette with an automatic and the difference is very noticable - the torque converter keeps the acceleration going throughout the shift.

[paulmon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
I'd love to know how to stop the bobble-head effect on a standard transmission - I don't think it is possible. The Gs vs. time chart on my GTech/Pro shows, as expected, acceleration momentarily drops to zero on shifts when the clutch is in. The passenger gets thrown back and forth as the car goes from 0.5G to 0G to 0.4G on a shift - even if the shift only takes half a second. I put the GTech on a friends Corvette with an automatic and the difference is very noticable - the torque converter keeps the acceleration going throughout the shift.

I must admitt that taking away the "bobble head" is very hard in the MINI and I don't do it all the time. I'm really not sure what I do, it's a function of three things. Rate of acceleration, Clutch technique and shifting/rev matching. Because of the MINI's "drive by wire" throtle the revs don't drop that quick when you depress the clutch. The slower you are accelerating the easier this is going to be. In what I would consider normal acceleration, moving from a light at the same rate as everyone else, this it can be done. I try to do this more when I have a passenger but when I'm alone I get lazy.

However when it comes to smoothness nothing will be a good automatic.

I like how you used the G-Tech to messure this, very interesting. I would love to grab one of thos new G-Tech competitions, maybe in the summer when the snow is gone. Do you have the competition or regular G-Tech? If you have the competition could you post a graph of acceleration where you're trying to shift smooth and not trying to accelerate fast?

Paul

[paulmon]

Quote:

Originally posted by P.Phresh
Try downshifting without the double clutch and then try it with a double clutch. I will guarantee you that your car will slow due to engine breaking without the double clutch. If you're doing the double clutch properly, smoothly and quickly, you should be doing it just as fast as downshifting without it, if not faster.

Try this, drive at about 60 km/h in 5th gear, then engage the clutch, shift it into 3rd gear, then release the clutch quickly, i.e. "pop" the clutch. What does your car do? What do you expect it to do?

Then, try the double clutch, and release exactly as what you're doing without the double clutch, "pop" the clutch to release it, it's what you should be doing anyways. What does your car do? What do you expect it to do?

There is a LARGE difference in "single-clutching" as compared to "double-clutching". You should be able to FEEL the difference in fact. Just try it.

It's the double press of the clutch that I believe is the waste. Try this. At 60km/h in 5th gear, engage the clutch and give a blip of the trottle as you shift into third gear. The blip should go slightly past the RPM that the engine will be in when it reaches 3rd. This is effectively doing the same as the double clutch without the unnecessary pause in neutral where you lift your foot from the clutch and depress it again.

If the MINI was a race car and had no synchros (i.e. straight cut gears) then the double clutch is mandatory but the blip works just fine thanks to the synchros. I can easily downshift from 5th to 3rd without any engine braking at all because of the blip.

Paul

[supersport]

Quote:

Originally posted by paulmon
It's the double press of the clutch that I believe is the waste. Try this. At 60km/h in 5th gear, engage the clutch and give a blip of the trottle as you shift into third gear. The blip should go slightly past the RPM that the engine will be in when it reaches 3rd. This is effectively doing the same as the double clutch without the unnecessary pause in neutral where you lift your foot from the clutch and depress it again.

If the MINI was a race car and had no synchros (i.e. straight cut gears) then the double clutch is mandatory but the blip works just fine thanks to the synchros. I can easily downshift from 5th to 3rd without any engine braking at all because of the blip.

Paul

The whole point of double clutching is to match the speed of the transmission (input shaft and clutch and gears) with the speed of the engine (flywheel) -- It is NOT possible to match these two with only a single clutch and a throttle blip -- double clutching spins up the transmission and clutch to match the engine when the throttle is blipped in neutral (It revs the engine at the same time of course...). Don't match these two, and much energy is lost as friction.

Your example of a 5th to 3rd shift with a single clutch and a blip does nothing except spin the engine faster -- the transmission side does not spin up with that blip, so the syncros and clutch wear to the max (with much energy loss). Your bliping of the engine does half the job , but it doesn't address what is happening on the transmission side.

Double clutching while passing a car on the highway, or wanting a lower gear for better control around a corner should give you a seamless change in rpm with the minimum possible energy loss.
The fastest guy around the track (or to the cottage) -- all else being equal -- is the guy double clutching (and heal and toeing). He will be the smoothest and most artful too.
Condider the fact that there is MUCH less wear just a (very nice) fringe benefit.

So, the double press on the clutch does cause more wear on the throw-out bearing (which is the cheapest part -- although getting to it isn't) -- but I guess that's why I don't bother downshifting for a red light, or sitting at a light with the clutch in.

But, hey, do what you like -- I'm sure there are people here who want to treat their cars well, and drive them as fast and efficiently as possible without shortening the life of their expensive transmissions and clutches.

(syncros are basically sacrificial brass gears -- they are designed to wear much more quickly to protect the main gears from broken teeth during less than perfect shifts).