[rob_lewis]

First, to Paul Mullett:
Yes, I know this has been discussed, but I decided to start a petition and a new thread specifically on this issue. I am NOT happy that my car has been changed and want to try to have something done about it.

So,
I have started a petition to let MINI of North America know that the opinions in the J.D. Power study do NOT match those of the majority of MINI owners.

You can sign the petition here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/USMINIS/petition.html

Please encourage all U.S. MINI owners to sign this petition.

(I will also post this on other boards, so you may see it a couple of times.)

Thanks.
-Rob Lewis

[PigLick]

Personally, I'm going to wait until some people who are familiar with the current setup have test-driven the new setup before signing. I know it's a long-shot, but it may be that the car handles just as well with the new setup, but has a softer ride. If that's the case, I have no problem with it. Of course, as I said, that's a long shot, as soft ride and handling seem to be pretty well diametrically opposed, but I still don't want to jump the gun until it is confirmed that there really is something to complain about.

PigLick

[Spy Car]

With all due respect, I believe it would be a serious error to wait before responding to what is announced as a "dramatic" change to the car.

MINIUSA needs to hear that we don't want the ride softened at the expense of the handling characteristics and they need to hear that message NOW.

[Casey]

I signed it - rob are you posting this on all the forums?

[rob_lewis]

Quote:

Originally posted by Casey
I signed it - rob are you posting this on all the forums?

Not to advertise other boards (sorry, Paul), but I have posted this on:
http://www.mini2.com/
http://forums1.roadfly.org/mini/forums/cooper/
http://www.minicooperonline.com
and the Owner's Lounge

If there are any other's that I haven't listed above, please feel free to pass the word!!

Thanks, everyone, for the response!!!

-Rob Lewis

[xplode]

signed. please keep the signatures coming if you care about this issue, there's no need to wait - we're sending a message, or rather correcting the message sent by jd.powers which seems to be rather erroneous to me and it seems MINIUSA has taken it at face value and decided to implement a RATHER drastic change.

the message needs to get out that they seem to be acting on information that does not reflect the majority of MINI owners, and the suggested change is WAY too drastic anyway (if anything, it should be an option, one that is not even default).

this message needs to get to MINUSA asap!

so let's assume the information is wrong or that the change isn't as drastic as they've made it sound, let's assume there's some error somewhere - fine, that's good for us, but that doesn't change the fact that this message needs to get out. it can't hurt to let MINIUSA know. it can only hurt to let this wait...

my $.02

[Paul]

I've emailed MINI USA direct to see what the story is.

Not saying I'll get an answer soon, but I hope I do.

I've directed them towards this and the other long thread so they can see the questions and reactions this has brought.

Paul

[rob_lewis]

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Mullett
I've emailed MINI USA direct to see what the story is.

Not saying I'll get an answer soon, but I hope I do.

I've directed them towards this and the other long thread so they can see the questions and reactions this has brought.

Paul

Thanks, Paul. Like I mentioned in my email to the writer of the article in the Detroit News, YOU may have more influence in getting their attention than the owners of their cars do.......

-Rob

[Paul]

Initial response from Mike McHale, MINI Communications Manager:

Quote:

don't worry, we are not softening MINI - we
know that handling is everything. We are just looking to constantly improve
and we've been working months to get this perfected:

Beginning with May production, the MINI Cooper S will feature a revised
suspension set-up that allows for a more supple ride while maintaining the
car's outstanding handling characteristics. The new configuration is
achieved through the introduction of new shock absorber oil and revised
shock tuning.

MINI USA recognises that superb handling is a key feature of the MINI
Cooper S and has worked to ensure that the new improved suspension will
deliver the performance that our customers expect.

I've sent another email with a few more questions to see if we can get some more specifics, as I'm sure that's what you're all hungry for.

[Paul]

Depending on when I get to eat dinner (?!) I'll be able to give you more information within about an hour (or so).

Paul

[rob_lewis]

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Mullett
Depending on when I get to eat dinner (?!) I'll be able to give you more information within about an hour (or so).

Paul

As usual, Paul, you rock.

Thanks for the update. I think I am more concerned, now, about the fact that they did NOT inform us future owners ahead of time.

-Rob

[Paul]

Quote:

Originally posted by rob_lewis
As usual, Paul, you rock.

Thanks, but since I've got some new oil, it's more a sway than a rock.

[xplode]

(again, thanks paul! and rob_lewis!)

Quote:

Initial response from Mike McHale, MINI Communications Manager:

*snip*
Beginning with May production, the MINI Cooper S will feature a revised suspension set-up that allows for a more supple ride while maintaining the car's outstanding handling characteristics
*snip*

this completely fails to make me feel any better about the issue. the questions remain: why make a change specifically for the US market at all? why make a change without informing affected customers? why not make this an option, if anything? what about MINI's heritage? what about all those (most likely the vast majority) MINI drivers in the USA who actually GRASP the concept of a proper performance car vs. a plushy cruiser? furthermore i seriously doubt the ability of anyone to achieve a plushier ride without affecting handling at all, to me the two are inversely related.

in short, there should be NO difference between US MINIS and UK MINIS... the mere concept is preposterous, it shouldn't even be considered. the word blasphemy springs to mind.

alright i'm a little riled, but keep the signatures coming, please.

[rob_lewis]

Just got off the phone with Amanda from MINI USA concerning my original email. Apparently, they have gotten quite a few calls today......

She said that the only change that will be made is a change to a higher viscosity oil in the shocks. They will be the same gas charged as before, but the oil with change "slightly". The change should improve the handling over washboard type of roads without affecting performance.

I then asked her why MINI did not, at least, inform the future owners that have ordered cars of the change and she said that manufacturers often make current model changes to improve the product.

I also asked if she could provide me with the sample size number of the J.D. Powers survey (to compare to our petition number) and she could not. She did say, however, that MINI surveys all owners, so she assumed the sample size would be large.

I still don't know if I am happy about this change. We'll see if there is an offical press release regarding it.

-Rob

[KenL]

Is it just the US that is having this change? I'd expect MINI to improve all the cars not just the ones for the US.

[cristo]

I've seen repeatedly that they're changeing to a
HIGHER viscosity oil in the shock. Wouldn't this
actually increase the stiffness of the shock? I think
this would make the suspension a little stiffer but
less jiggly, unless they're also softening the valve
damping at the same time.
Do they think the original shocks are underdamped
for the MCS's spring rates? BTW I have a MC with SS+
and I LOVE the suspension as is.

[djmcs]

Rob,

I signed the petition. It is very well written. I was going to post one myself this evening when I had the time, but I am happy that you were able to get it taken care of immediately.

Now, we need to find out if these changes are only affecting the US Minis or if they are being implemented on all Minis worldwide.

They argue that the suspension design is improved. If this is the case the change woule be made worldwide. If this is a US specific change it is merely to make the car plusher and the expensive of its handling ability. It is that simple.

Please post any additional info that you hear or receive. It is very important that we act together as a group and get this situation taken care of.

Thanks again,
David

[djmcs]

Also, I believe that they said they were making the suspension "lighter", which would entail lowering the viscosity to make the suspension "floatier" and able to react quicker, at the expense of handling.

Shock tuning is about compromise. When you improve one aspect you always affect the other.

[rob_lewis]

Just as an update, I left a message with the journalist who wrote the article originally. His voice mail said he would be out until Monday, but that he would be checking his voice mail on a regular basis.

I wanted to give him the opportunity to do a follow up article before I started taking this issue to some of the other automotive press.

I will update if I hear back from him.

-Rob
(Hoping now that MINI doesn't accidentally "pull" my order...)

[Paul]

I've heard nothing more just yet, but this stands out when I asked on what effect it had on handling:

Quote:

we believe the handling to be unaffected but the ride more supple