MINI2

Paul · May 21st, 2003, 04:51 PM

Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I have finally got my hands on some official figures for the CVT One and Cooper.

They are indeed slightly slower (0-62 as well as top speed), less fuel effecient, and heavier than the manual versions.

Figures are in the technical section:

MINI2 Technical Section

What do you make of that?

AprilWhine · May 21st, 2003, 04:55 PM

Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me.

Paul · May 21st, 2003, 05:02 PM

I know a lot of people have been saying they want to know the official numbers from MINI on the CVT v Manual for several reasons.

mia · May 21st, 2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AprilWhine
Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me.

who the heck am i racing out of the tolls? my hubby thought the same thing before i bought SQUIRT..."isn't it a bit slow for the type of traffic we have around here?"
i don't care. i still love my car!

cjay · May 21st, 2003, 06:24 PM

All autos are a bit slower and use more fuel.

As AprilWhine said...

WHO CARES!

It's funny how a bunch of people (mostly S owners) who have never driven a CVT, spend more time criticizing CVT's than they do driving their MINI's.

MINI's are about having fun, who cares if they are a little slower or drink a little more.

cjay.

Paul · May 21st, 2003, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cjay
All autos are a bit slower and use more fuel.

As AprilWhine said...

WHO CARES!

Most of those who have been pushing for official facts and figures on the CVT performance are CVT owners, or those looking at buying one. It's taken a long time for BMW/MINI to make these easily accessible.

If I were weighing up the options of buying a CVT or manual, fuel consumption and performance figures are things I would really like to know about.

Quote:

It's funny how a bunch of people (mostly S owners) who have never driven a CVT, spend more time criticizing CVT's than they do driving their MINI's.

MINI's are about having fun, who cares if they are a little slower or drink a little more.

cjay.

I know those remarks were not directly aimed at me, but if you look at the title of the thread (including the ? at the end), and my post, you'll see I am not criticising the CVT's, just giving out some long over due facts and figures. And asking for opinions.

So far, CVT owners don't appear to be the slightest bit concerned. Which is cool.

I've spent a few weeks (a few thousand miles) behind the wheel of a CVT One and Cooper. I thought I'd hate it. I didn't! I still prefer the manual personally, but the CVT was a pleasant suprise.

jcuthell · May 21st, 2003, 07:43 PM

I can see both sides of the story. I have a CVT and it is good for an auto. But IMO it makes the car slightly frustrating. It seems to have no go below 2000rpm which makes it feel sluggish getting away from lights unless you stamp on the pedal. I have now ordered an S which will feel quicker but the CVT is not slow once it gets its speed up. I don't think it is particularly flexible in the steptronic mode though.

Willy · May 21st, 2003, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AprilWhine
Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me.

110!! You wild woman! That could get you time in the pokey in some parts

BTW, even though I somewhat regret getting my CVT Cooper, it has pleasantly good performance, though it is still getting difficult to talk myself out of trading it for an S.

sjbartnik · May 21st, 2003, 08:34 PM

It's strange that the CVT would be less fuel efficient than the manual because in theory, since a CVT offers an infinitely adjustable range of ratios, it should be able to pick the ideal ratio for every situation and therefore should be more efficient than a manual, which is a compromise from a gearing standpoint with only 5 or 6 fixed ratios.

I'm not sure how to account for that discrepancy between theory and practice. Perhaps the shorter final drive ratio in the CVT has a hand in that.

elmadi · May 21st, 2003, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AprilWhine
Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me.

I agree,agree.....Oh well maybe we can "stop" this talk of the CVT and discuss more "fruitful" other topics.

Paul · May 21st, 2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjbartnik
It's strange that the CVT would be less fuel efficient than the manual because in theory, since a CVT offers an infinitely adjustable range of ratios, it should be able to pick the ideal ratio for every situation and therefore should be more efficient than a manual, which is a compromise from a gearing standpoint with only 5 or 6 fixed ratios.

I'm not sure how to account for that discrepancy between theory and practice. Perhaps the shorter final drive ratio in the CVT has a hand in that.

I was also a little suprised at the difference 0-62 being quite so big. Again, with no need to drop the clutch and change gear....

nickworld · May 21st, 2003, 09:29 PM

For starters, I just want to say that I am speaking in complete ignorance because I haven't driven a CVT Mini, but in my opinion automatics don't really suit small cars. Much better in something big and wafty like a five-series or an XJ, but that's a personal opinion.

There's a great defence of the automatic in James Hawes' excellent White Merc with Fins. It talks about an original Mini 1.3 with an autobox - now you'd think that must've sucked, but he contends that it frees you up to concentrate purely on steering the car at speed (well after a fashion

). Especially important with the flingable little Mini. I'd say that probably hold *some* water for the new MINI too.

Though a manual Mini is always going to be quicker, more economical, controlable and fun (in my opinion!).

Each to their own!

acetonic · May 21st, 2003, 10:05 PM

That's it! I'm trading my MINI in for a Toyota Prius!

nickworld · May 21st, 2003, 10:07 PM

Don't get all green on us!

Sejanus · May 22nd, 2003, 12:03 AM

I'm also perfectly happy with the CVT (and I think there is something to be said for that hands on the wheel comment when doing the twisties), but I'm not surprised that the performance figures are a bit lower than the standard.

mia · May 22nd, 2003, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by acetonic
That's it! I'm trading my MINI in for a Toyota Prius!

LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahah

mia · May 22nd, 2003, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Mullett

I know those remarks were not directly aimed at me, but if you look at the title of the thread (including the ? at the end), and my post, you'll see I am not criticising the CVT's, just giving out some long over due facts and figures. And asking for opinions.

YES-THEY WERE AIMED DIRECTLY AT YOu!!!!

really, thanks for the info. i would assume that technical stuff is important to most owners and future buyers.

gtt19 · May 22nd, 2003, 12:21 AM

i've seen a couple of comments about how the CVT is a little sluggish in the low RPM's...this can be true. but, dont forget there are a few differences with this tranny.

when most people drive a regular automatic, they tend to "feather" the gas pedal upon take-off, in order to avoid a head-jerk...in a regular automatic, this is usually necessary to get a smooth take-off. In the MINI...do NOT do this! the tranny is designed to make the take-off smooth FOR YOU...which means if you feather the gas pedal like you would normally; you, AND the car are trying to make the take-off smooth, which does 2 things. 1.amplifies the "feathering" effect, which can make the car jerky and slow, and 2. not allow the RPM's to settle in one place, which slows down the acceleration, and makes it feel sluggish. so, in a CVT, stomp on it! now, i dont mean mash it to the floor like a top-fuel dragster, but press the pedal down at least half-way to the floor right away. this will NOT make the CVT perform like a MCS

, but i think you will be more happy with the way it accelerates.

also, don't be shy when moving it in and out of the 3 different modes! if you want a quicker take-off, just drop it into "SD" mode, or full out "fake-stick" mode (steptronic) right away.... and next time you drive a CVT, see what you think!

ScooterMan · May 22nd, 2003, 12:59 AM

Despite the problems, I love the CVT!

PigLick · May 22nd, 2003, 01:10 AM

Thanks for the info Paul.

As far as the 0-62 times though, I wonder what mode was used to get that time? If it was tested in the regular "D" mode, it's not telling the whole story, because SD/Steptronic could both likely improve on that time quite a bit. I think a CVT owner in another thread mentionerd he's going to be getting some good track time in coming up soon, so it will be interesting to see how his figures compare to these official ones, since I assume he'll be testing in all the different modes and with different techniques.

PigLick

May 21st, 2003, 04:51 PM	#1
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 10:43 AM Posts: 41,276 Offline	MINI CVT's are slow, heavy, inefficient, and bad for the environment? Well, that might be a bit dramatic, but I have finally got my hands on some official figures for the CVT One and Cooper. They are indeed slightly slower (0-62 as well as top speed), less fuel effecient, and heavier than the manual versions. Figures are in the technical section: MINI2 Technical Section What do you make of that? There aint no party like my nana's tea party

May 21st, 2003, 04:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
AprilWhine Loves the Fuzzy One Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gypsy Local Time: 02:43 AM Posts: 17,046 Offline	Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me. Attached Thumbnails Global Moderator

May 21st, 2003, 05:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 10:43 AM Posts: 41,276 Offline	I know a lot of people have been saying they want to know the official numbers from MINI on the CVT v Manual for several reasons. There aint no party like my nana's tea party

May 21st, 2003, 05:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
mia MINI2 Senior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lower macungie, penn Local Time: 05:43 AM Posts: 474 Offline	i agree! Quote: Originally posted by AprilWhine Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me. who the heck am i racing out of the tolls? my hubby thought the same thing before i bought SQUIRT..."isn't it a bit slow for the type of traffic we have around here?" i don't care. i still love my car! 2002silkgreen/black cooper-cvt-premium-sport-xenon-ss+

May 21st, 2003, 06:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 10:43 AM Posts: 41,276 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by cjay All autos are a bit slower and use more fuel. As AprilWhine said... WHO CARES! Most of those who have been pushing for official facts and figures on the CVT performance are CVT owners, or those looking at buying one. It's taken a long time for BMW/MINI to make these easily accessible. If I were weighing up the options of buying a CVT or manual, fuel consumption and performance figures are things I would really like to know about. Quote: It's funny how a bunch of people (mostly S owners) who have never driven a CVT, spend more time criticizing CVT's than they do driving their MINI's. MINI's are about having fun, who cares if they are a little slower or drink a little more. cjay. I know those remarks were not directly aimed at me, but if you look at the title of the thread (including the ? at the end), and my post, you'll see I am not criticising the CVT's, just giving out some long over due facts and figures. And asking for opinions. So far, CVT owners don't appear to be the slightest bit concerned. Which is cool. I've spent a few weeks (a few thousand miles) behind the wheel of a CVT One and Cooper. I thought I'd hate it. I didn't! I still prefer the manual personally, but the CVT was a pleasant suprise. There aint no party like my nana's tea party

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May 21st, 2003, 06:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
cjay "No Works for me!" Join Date: Jan 2003 Local Time: 07:43 PM Posts: 489 Offline	All autos are a bit slower and use more fuel. As AprilWhine said... WHO CARES! It's funny how a bunch of people (mostly S owners) who have never driven a CVT, spend more time criticizing CVT's than they do driving their MINI's. MINI's are about having fun, who cares if they are a little slower or drink a little more. cjay.

May 21st, 2003, 07:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
jcuthell MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Essex Local Time: 09:43 AM Posts: 295 Offline	I can see both sides of the story. I have a CVT and it is good for an auto. But IMO it makes the car slightly frustrating. It seems to have no go below 2000rpm which makes it feel sluggish getting away from lights unless you stamp on the pedal. I have now ordered an S which will feel quicker but the CVT is not slow once it gets its speed up. I don't think it is particularly flexible in the steptronic mode though. September 3 2004 HB/HB Cooper S, dark glass, Chili, chrome interior, Sony CDX F7500 anthracite headlining,

May 21st, 2003, 07:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Willy MINI2 Master Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Running From The Law Local Time: 05:43 AM Posts: 2,420 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by AprilWhine Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me. 110!! You wild woman! That could get you time in the pokey in some parts BTW, even though I somewhat regret getting my CVT Cooper, it has pleasantly good performance, though it is still getting difficult to talk myself out of trading it for an S. http://billlawrence.blogspot.com

May 21st, 2003, 08:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
sjbartnik MINI2 Senior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Local Time: 05:43 AM Posts: 629 Offline	It's strange that the CVT would be less fuel efficient than the manual because in theory, since a CVT offers an infinitely adjustable range of ratios, it should be able to pick the ideal ratio for every situation and therefore should be more efficient than a manual, which is a compromise from a gearing standpoint with only 5 or 6 fixed ratios. I'm not sure how to account for that discrepancy between theory and practice. Perhaps the shorter final drive ratio in the CVT has a hand in that. Sean Bartnik 2003 MINI Cooper S

May 21st, 2003, 09:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
elmadi MINI2 Regular Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cook County,Illinois Local Time: 03:43 AM Posts: 259 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by AprilWhine Eh, who cares? I bought my CVT for fun, not racing. It goes plenty fast enough for me. I agree,agree.....Oh well maybe we can "stop" this talk of the CVT and discuss more "fruitful" other topics.

May 21st, 2003, 09:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 10:43 AM Posts: 41,276 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by sjbartnik It's strange that the CVT would be less fuel efficient than the manual because in theory, since a CVT offers an infinitely adjustable range of ratios, it should be able to pick the ideal ratio for every situation and therefore should be more efficient than a manual, which is a compromise from a gearing standpoint with only 5 or 6 fixed ratios. I'm not sure how to account for that discrepancy between theory and practice. Perhaps the shorter final drive ratio in the CVT has a hand in that. I was also a little suprised at the difference 0-62 being quite so big. Again, with no need to drop the clutch and change gear.... There aint no party like my nana's tea party

May 21st, 2003, 09:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
nickworld pretend grown-up Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carping from the sidelines Local Time: 10:43 AM Posts: 499 Offline	For starters, I just want to say that I am speaking in complete ignorance because I haven't driven a CVT Mini, but in my opinion automatics don't really suit small cars. Much better in something big and wafty like a five-series or an XJ, but that's a personal opinion. There's a great defence of the automatic in James Hawes' excellent White Merc with Fins. It talks about an original Mini 1.3 with an autobox - now you'd think that must've sucked, but he contends that it frees you up to concentrate purely on steering the car at speed (well after a fashion). Especially important with the flingable little Mini. I'd say that probably hold some water for the new MINI too. Though a manual Mini is always going to be quicker, more economical, controlable and fun (in my opinion!). Each to their own!

May 21st, 2003, 10:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
acetonic MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Castle, Delaware Local Time: 05:43 AM Posts: 289 Offline	That's it! I'm trading my MINI in for a Toyota Prius!

May 21st, 2003, 10:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
nickworld pretend grown-up Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carping from the sidelines Local Time: 10:43 AM Posts: 499 Offline	Don't get all green on us!

May 22nd, 2003, 12:03 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sejanus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sacramento Local Time: 02:43 AM Posts: 4,326 Offline	I'm also perfectly happy with the CVT (and I think there is something to be said for that hands on the wheel comment when doing the twisties), but I'm not surprised that the performance figures are a bit lower than the standard.

May 22nd, 2003, 12:03 AM	#16 (permalink)
mia MINI2 Senior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lower macungie, penn Local Time: 05:43 AM Posts: 474 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by acetonic That's it! I'm trading my MINI in for a Toyota Prius! LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahah 2002silkgreen/black cooper-cvt-premium-sport-xenon-ss+

May 22nd, 2003, 12:07 AM	#17 (permalink)
mia MINI2 Senior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lower macungie, penn Local Time: 05:43 AM Posts: 474 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Paul Mullett I know those remarks were not directly aimed at me, but if you look at the title of the thread (including the ? at the end), and my post, you'll see I am not criticising the CVT's, just giving out some long over due facts and figures. And asking for opinions. YES-THEY WERE AIMED DIRECTLY AT YOu!!!! really, thanks for the info. i would assume that technical stuff is important to most owners and future buyers. 2002silkgreen/black cooper-cvt-premium-sport-xenon-ss+

May 22nd, 2003, 12:21 AM	#18 (permalink)
gtt19 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Local Time: 05:43 AM Posts: 143 Offline	i've seen a couple of comments about how the CVT is a little sluggish in the low RPM's...this can be true. but, dont forget there are a few differences with this tranny. when most people drive a regular automatic, they tend to "feather" the gas pedal upon take-off, in order to avoid a head-jerk...in a regular automatic, this is usually necessary to get a smooth take-off. In the MINI...do NOT do this! the tranny is designed to make the take-off smooth FOR YOU...which means if you feather the gas pedal like you would normally; you, AND the car are trying to make the take-off smooth, which does 2 things. 1.amplifies the "feathering" effect, which can make the car jerky and slow, and 2. not allow the RPM's to settle in one place, which slows down the acceleration, and makes it feel sluggish. so, in a CVT, stomp on it! now, i dont mean mash it to the floor like a top-fuel dragster, but press the pedal down at least half-way to the floor right away. this will NOT make the CVT perform like a MCS , but i think you will be more happy with the way it accelerates. also, don't be shy when moving it in and out of the 3 different modes! if you want a quicker take-off, just drop it into "SD" mode, or full out "fake-stick" mode (steptronic) right away.... and next time you drive a CVT, see what you think! Greg Giving the act of "shouting into your watch" a new definition - Incredibly MINI. http://www.hammerandcoop.com.

May 22nd, 2003, 12:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
ScooterMan MINI2 Regular Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Local Time: 04:43 AM Posts: 177 Offline	Despite the problems, I love the CVT! Pepper White / Red Interior / Red Stripes / CVT Talk is cheap 'cause supply exceeds demand.

May 22nd, 2003, 01:10 AM	#20 (permalink)
PigLick MINI2 Senior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: us Local Time: 01:43 AM Posts: 512 Offline	Thanks for the info Paul. As far as the 0-62 times though, I wonder what mode was used to get that time? If it was tested in the regular "D" mode, it's not telling the whole story, because SD/Steptronic could both likely improve on that time quite a bit. I think a CVT owner in another thread mentionerd he's going to be getting some good track time in coming up soon, so it will be interesting to see how his figures compare to these official ones, since I assume he'll be testing in all the different modes and with different techniques. PigLick

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