[Shaun]

Could I apeal to the great and the good that subscribe to MINI2 to please if you dont allready PLEASE learn some first aid!
I was first on scene at an accident tonight car vs bike no more details required no blame layed, it does not matter here.
I was tending to injured rider keepng him IMOBILE, SAFE AND CONCIOUS and a good lady "nurse" arrives and says lets get his helmet off that will make him feel better.
NO NO NO NO NO NO AND ONCE MORE NO!!!!!!!!!!!

Please I apeal to all MINI2 ers & thats a hell of a lot of people. Learn what to do at an accident scene please make this a sticky so that we as a collective can all do something usefull by generally doing not a lot but not the wrong thing it is very simple but you can break a neck by removing a helmet.

Please lets all take responsibility as motorists we like to motor and one day we may be first on scene.

Shaun 3 points and apparently dangerous??????????

[chughes163]

I must say this is quite a good post as you make a strong point.

I have a story similar to this to tell...

2 weeks ago i drove to a petrol station at night to get some fuel - in front of me was a motorcyclist who was just getting onto his bike to go..anyway, i didnt think anything of it, and after paying i started to drive home. I got to a round-a-bout and i spotted a car parked up in the road and several people running. I slowed right down and the very same motorcyclist had smacked straight into the roundabout - bike looked a total mess, and he was lying unconcious - i stopped to ask if they needed any help and they said they were fine. To my horror as i proceeded to drive on, someone had removed the guys helmet and I couldnt believe anyone could be soo stupid!

I suppose people think that it will help the rider 'breathe' but the entire point of a helmet is to protect the head and kneck - even after an accident - so dont be tempted!

[Ginger]

Good point, well made Shaun.
G

[Richard Crofts]

Too true...Dont move a biker/cyclist at all unless they suddenly have problems breathing...then only to the recovery possition in the proper manner (which helps reduce back injury in the roll) NEVER remove the helmet unless to give CPR coz they have stopped breathing...even if they are struggling (undo the fastening but nothing further) DO NOT take it off untill they actually stop (Its the last resort!)

Same is true of car injuries...dont undo the belt or move seats/remove people from cars even if they want you to help them get out, unless its on fire or there is significant chance of fire/explosion (unlikely in most modern cars due to petrol shutoffs etc.) They will be better off staying in until a para or tech or doc asseses them...even the fire brigade will have more knowledge than us or them about accident injuries and the injured parties severity.

This was the advice given to me by my future mother in law who is a nurse of 30+ years and worked A&E...Army hospitals and surgical. My mate is also an ambulance tech who says the same.

Even if you dont do first aid...remember these points...all you need is the basics...Learn the recovery possition and CPR Leave the rest upto the proper people.

This advice protects you, as much as the injured party. Coz what if you taking the helmet off causes thier neck to bust or moving them busts their back?? In theory they can sue you...you were not trained to tend them!

Sad but true...Do the bare minimum needed and let the pro's hadle it..the most important factor is to stay calm and get the correct services there ASAP!

Anyway...grown up rant over...its nearly the weekend! yeay!

[Dark Silver S]

Shaun, excellent point! I was an EMT for eight years, and we had a regular policy of having the police remove any doctors or nurses from the scene unless they were ER certified. The best thing you can do for the victim is to reassure him/her that everything will be okay and that help is on the way. Unless you are trained in immobilization techniques, don't do anything else, except keeping others from doing harm.

[Shaun]

Thanks Richard you have kindly explained my rant of last night I was in some degree of shock having seen the accident in my rear veiw mirror.
The poor chap landed on his back/side his feet were up on the curb (sidewalk) he couldnt of fallen better all I had to do was keep him conscious by means of talking nonsense and keep any do gooders at bay.
I trained in first aid after a 30 year old man died of a heart attack on my shift 10 years ago. I have kept it up ever since.
I just wanted to get the mesage accross that we as a collective of motorists, statistically stand the chance of witnessing such events and sadly may even through no fault of our own be involved we should at least be prepared.

Shaun

Ps the rider suffered back, knee and elbow injuries any updates will be relayed as avaliable.

[Brushy]

Well said Shaun, we all should read this post.

[dr remulac]

Any real nurse would know better than that.

[MrDurst]

Quote:

Originally posted by dr remulac
Any real nurse would know better than that.

Bloody right, can't believe that.
I've done my basic first aid and it did come in handy once.

[Jason S]

agreed that this should be a sticky

I've been riding bikes longer than I've been driving cars, and I'd hope that if ever I were unconcious at an accident on my bike someone would have the sense to leave my helmet on until the ambulance arrived.

I've bounced across the racetrack a couple of times and felt fine, but race officials insist you leave your lid on until you get checked out, covering their asses maybe, but there's a reason for it.

IT's quite frightening how much damaged someone can do thinking they're doing good...

[LuckyRVA]

That's really suprising the nurse wanted to take his helmet off

I feel the same as you, I was a lifeguard before I had to get a real job and I know the skills I learned would be invaluable during an incident like you described. I should go back and take another CPR class as it's been awhile since I last took one.

Thanks for the reminder


-Jason

[cheekygrin]

On a related note, to keeping injured people still --

If the injured party has something stuck in them (glass, signpost, knife, ballpoint pen that was in their top pocket) LEAVE IT IN. Do NOT pull out anything.

Chances are that the foreign body is keeping the wound closed and acting as a plug; remove this plug and it will bleed faster and more freely.

[chiph]

When in doubt --
Run in circles
scream and shout.



===============
Update:
Well, now that this thread is sticky, I think my attempt at humor doesn't really fit.

I would urge people *not* to run about screaming, but to help those who are injured, warn other motorists of the accident, and assist the authorities as directed. Responding to an accident is merely the process of solving those problems in order, and being sensible is the way to do it. It doesn't hurt to take a first-aid course at your local Red Cross or Red Crescent office.

Chip H.

[Shaun]

Thanks for the support and sticky. I hope that all the people who have read this thread so far have at least given it some thought.

Thought this might be of use

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/first_ai...on/index.shtml

Shaun

[Damagex]

As a sportbike rider this is very scary. I've seen many videos of other riders jerking off and wrecking their bikes, surprisingly just about every video shows his buddy taking the helmet off first or turning his head to look at his face. You'd think that other riders would know better but I guess safety isn't really on the minds of most "stunt" riders.

Maybe a big sticker across the front of the helmet might help people.

[R1]

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun
Could I apeal to the great and the good that subscribe to MINI2 to please if you dont allready PLEASE learn some first aid!
I was first on scene at an accident tonight car vs bike no more details required no blame layed, it does not matter here.
I was tending to injured rider keepng him IMOBILE, SAFE AND CONCIOUS and a good lady "nurse" arrives and says lets get his helmet off that will make him feel better.
NO NO NO NO NO NO AND ONCE MORE NO!!!!!!!!!!!

Please I apeal to all MINI2 ers & thats a hell of a lot of people. Learn what to do at an accident scene please make this a sticky so that we as a collective can all do something usefull by generally doing not a lot but not the wrong thing it is very simple but you can break a neck by removing a helmet.

Please lets all take responsibility as motorists we like to motor and one day we may be first on scene.

Shaun 3 points and apparently dangerous??????????

Well posted!

[randap]

Although there is a correct technique for removing a helmet, it takes a minimum of 3 people and must not be attempted by anyone untrained and as a last resort.

As for making people safer, as a primary bike rider, I think all cars should have spikes instead of airbags (except my MC of course) - this would make folk think twice

[pitstop]

A good and relevant thread. I have the unfortunate pleasure of having had to tend to many people at the scene of road accidents (job), and first aid (proper) does have a big impact on life/death and post accident recovery/quality of life.

A couple of points mentioned earlier in the thread (as are others) are very valid - not removing imbedded articles and seatbelts. The only point I would add to the latter is that a cause of serious injury/death with drivers correctly wearing seatbelts can be suffocation through airway collapse as their hear drops forward post accident. Only a small point but it is very important to secure the airway by supporting the head if unconscious - if you get to a scene, even if people say they don't need help - just check, as can be seen by experiences here it is not always the case.

On another note I ride a small scooter (against my better judgement really) and this thread has prompted me to have a custom sticker made that will be on my helmet and will read "INCASE OF ACCIDENT DO NOT REMOVE FROM RIDER UNLESS BREATING HAS STOPPED" - or something like that, I'll speak with the local "Bike Safe" co-ordinator see if anything has already been done in this way.

I've only added a little to this thread - but would encourage all to have basic first aid training, the most likely place you will make use of that training is in your own home!

On a happier note... gonna clean that Mini up and go for a spin on this fine Saturday Morning.

[randap]

Quote: Originally Posted by pitstop

On another note I ride a small scooter (against my better judgement really) and this thread has prompted me to have a custom sticker made that will be on my helmet and will read "INCASE OF ACCIDENT DO NOT REMOVE FROM RIDER UNLESS BREATING HAS STOPPED" - or something like that, I'll speak with the local "Bike Safe" co-ordinator see if anything has already been done in this way.

Yes it has already been done - I had stickers marked "DO NOT remove helmet unless trained to do so". I got them from a bike show, one of the insurance stands I think.

Don't forget tho' that you can't put stickers directly onto polycarbonate helmets, as the solvent will weaken the shell.

[smethers]

Heres one to think about, a guy at work had a hit and run on his car whilst travelling around a bend. He reports it to the Police, the Police say that they cannot trace the other car from the sketchy details he had. Four hours later the Police call him to say that the hit and run driver comes into the police station to report the fact that he hit a car. They tell him no one is injured, just take his home phone number and off he goes.

So the company insurance company try to recover the excess, replacement vehicle hire etc from the hit and run, but they cannot trace him from his telephone number alone, apparently illegal to trace this way !!!! and the company who go after the excess etc cannot find him !

So our company has to forfeit the excess etc.

So always get as much info as you can, always inform the police and hope that they take a few more details from the other driver !