Lift of Oversteer anyone??

[RedUn]

Went out in my mates Fiesta Zetec-s today, and he has perfected his lift off oversteer technique. His car seems very gradual and controlable.

Just wondering has anybody tried this in their Mini??
If so whats it like

P.S. This was on an empty road with no one about, I am not saying go out and try it now

Small print I will not be held resposible for anybody crashing their mini

[dco43054]

I have not noticed any "lift off oversteer", or "trailing throttle oversteer" to speak of in my MCS.

Now my 99 Miata MX-5/Miata, that was a whole nother story. Scares you the first time if you aren't expecting it, then you just learn to play with it.

Dave

[RedUn]

Max would you say that it's pretty progressive?

I tried it the other day on this massive bend but the road surface was that real smooth sticky tarmac, so it just squeeled at me.

In my last car i was going round this round about fairly quick when somebody pulled on to it i had to let off sharply and went broadside scary at the time but cool after

Looks like I aint tryin hard enough

[RedUn]

Quote:

Originally posted by dco43054
I have not noticed any "lift off oversteer", or "trailing throttle oversteer" to speak of in my MCS.

Now my 99 Miata MX-5/Miata, that was a whole nother story. Scares you the first time if you aren't expecting it, then you just learn to play with it.

Dave

What is trailing throttle oversteer?????????????
According to Max it can be done, looks like you'll have to try a little harder.

Did ure Mx-5 break traction easyily??

[dco43054]

Quote:

Originally posted by RedUn
What is trailing throttle oversteer?...looks like you'll have to try a little harder.

Did ure Mx-5 break traction easyily??

Now someone will probably come up with a highly technical description that I am just not going to attempt - but - Trailing throttle oversteer (TTO) is a condition where when headed at speed into a relatively tight turn at a constant rate of speed and lateral force, and lifting off the throttle, the back end of the car will begin to rotate outward causing the front end to tighten its line and if serious enough, and not corrected, will either send the car into a spin, or make a quick turn into what's on the inside of the turn. In layman's terms - understeer is when you turn the wheel and the car doesn't go in the direction of the wheels, or plows. Oversteer is when it turns faster than expected.

TTO was something that used to bite a lot of rear engined Porsche drivers in the butt. The driver would head into a tight turn too fast, panic, lift off the throttle, and the back end would swap ends with the front end in spectacular fashion. Porsche did a lot of work to minimize this along the way and it is nowhere as bad today as it was. Most people probably never push the cars to the point where they would display it.

I suspect the DSC on my MCS will try to keep me from experiencing similar things. But, if you go into a situation all stupid, nothing will save you.

Now from what Redun and Max have to say, it seems you can get the MINI to behave the same way, but since I have not had mine on the track, and the best I can do on an exit from the highway is about 60 mph, I haven't noticed.

My MX5 on the other hand displayed TTO with gusto. Go into a tight turn hard at 40 mph, or even 35 and lift off the throttle and the nose tucked right in. It was fun and predictable.

I never did experience the MX5 spinning, but then again, I never pushed it past what I thought it could safely take on the road.

Regards,

Dave

[Dark Silver S]

I would say that there is a difference between trailing throttle oversteer and what the early Porches did. My Triumph Spitfire did that too. It really is snap oversteer. You lift, and snap, you're going backward. I did some pretty spectacular snaps with the Spitfire on the track and in some rallies. Trust me, it takes a long time to clean out all the hay when you back into a haybale.

[RedUn]

dco43054
The way you described that trailing throttle oversteer sounded like lift off oversteer to me. So if thats TTO what is lift of oversteer???

Of course you can get your mini to do it, you not have round abouts there or sumut

Tried it this morning did realy come out just kinda drifted.

[mad brummie]

Quote:

I tried it the other day on this massive bend but the road surface was that real smooth sticky tarmac, so it just squeeled at me.

Redun, you havin a laugh, smooth tarmac, in Britain? I don't believe its possible!

[mini huni]

Dark Silver S

It also takes a long time to clean your underware
when the inside rear wheel folds under in the spitfire.
Scary!
I thought the saying was
"If in doubt GAS it"

[Vanwall]

That's something the DSC is designed to prevent. It can be pretty hairy if you've never experienced it in a fast corner before, and can lead to a lot of trouble if you forget to keep your foot in it, and panic lift. I don't recommend taking the DSC off in normal Driving situations, but on the track it might be something that benefits a particular course or driver.

In the old Minis, it was kinda fun on on ramps & such, and you learned pretty quick about it if you went fast in a Mini. You could snap the rear end quick. I still remember riding shotgun on a fast 1275S, with a real hotshoe piloting, and he had that sucker sideways drifting all the way on to the freeway, his foot flat. We were coming up on a Camaro, gainin' fast, and I was looking out the sliding passenger window at his eyeballs getting ever bigger as we approached. HeHe - sometime I'll tell you about hotshoe's time down Lombard St. in Frisco - going down AND going UP!!

BCNU,
Rob in Dago

[Roger Corby]

Basically, lift-off oversteer and trailing throttle oversteer are the same thing, and they are predictable in most front-drive cars where you have a weight distribution ratio biased to the front. It's simply a matter of "steering with the throttle," or correcting for understeer by causing a weight distribution change that causes the rear end to hang out. Great fun, but you lose some momentum by doing this.

The solution? Handbrake turns. Keep the throttle on during the corner, and when your understeer starts to get too pronounced, yank the handbrake (keeping the button down AND keeping the throttle on) to break tire adhesion at the rear (assuming the handbrake operates on the rear wheels) and then release the handbrake while turning into the oversteer. There's a good example of it in the wet in "The Bourne Identity" with an old Cooper, and I have used it to great advantage in racing and Gymkhana-ing on frozen lakes with an old Saab I used to have.

It takes big huevos (for you Brits, that's Spanish for ********) to do this, but it's a useful tool if you are in the wrong attitude during a turn, you're moving too fast in the corner, or if there's an emergency that suddenly pops up ahead of you during the corner.

I'm still working on getting it right in the wet, and then on to trying it when it's dry.

By the way, I DON'T recommend it to you. Show this to your lawyer if you get upside down.

Regards--Roger in The Big Easy

[tip]

Lift off oversteer is great fun in the MCS. I do it everday when I leave work on this 90deg bend. sometimes I forget to turn off the DSC, The back end will swing out it takes awhile sometimes for the DSC to kick in, but when it does it is quite a jolt as the car straightens out. If you attempt to do this, do it when no one is around just in case you get a little bit out of control and need to correct yourself. Nothing worse then blowing a 360 in front of someone. It happened to me unexpectedly in my old MC. I wasn't even triing to oversteer and things got out of hand. no damage.

Play safe.

Charles

[Nic D]

Quote:

Originally posted by Roger Corby
The solution? Handbrake turns. Keep the throttle on during the corner, and when your understeer starts to get too pronounced, yank the handbrake (keeping the button down AND keeping the throttle on) to break tire adhesion at the rear (assuming the handbrake operates on the rear wheels) and then release the handbrake while turning into the oversteer.

Woah there! Thats seriously silly IMO.

Right your barrelling into a corner, too much speed and you start to understeer, so your front tires have gone past the point of grip and are now sliding so you go yank the handbrake to make the back tire's slide? Hmmm all of a sudden your into a 4 wheel slide. Using the handbrake isn't such a great idea but i can see your point.

[RedUn]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nic D
Woah there! Thats seriously silly IMO.

Right your barrelling into a corner, too much speed and you start to understeer, so your front tires have gone past the point of grip and are now sliding so you go yank the handbrake to make the back tire's slide? Hmmm all of a sudden your into a 4 wheel slide. Using the handbrake isn't such a great idea but i can see your point.

I never ever use the handbrake after my put his fiesta into a wall trying to slide it round this bend not good if you ask me.

[RedUn]

Quote:

Originally posted by BRG MC
Redun, you havin a laugh, smooth tarmac, in Britain? I don't believe its possible!

There was only a little bit, about 200 yds from the roundabout, round this bend then it went back to the ****e stuff.