[badboyzbadboyz]

I have just got back from a proper 1 hour 15 min test drive in a MINI Cooper. All I can say is WOW. I drove a MINI Cooper S last week and I don't know why but it didn't excite me like the Cooper has. The Cooper is just an amazing car. Like the Cooper S they both handle like your on an Alton Towers roller coaster ride, the grip at times feels endless. The gearbox in the Cooper was the nicest gear box I have ever felt, which I was concerned about after driving the S. I hated the S gearbox, I didn't think it felt sport but more notchy and annoying. The Cooper gearbox was smooth but firm at the same time. The stiffness of the ride was a big suprise I must admit. When I test drove the Cooper S I was expecting it to be uncomfortably hard and firm but it wasn't. It was firm but in a nice sporty way. The Cooper wasn't that much softer I thought, but again still sporty. I prefered the slightly softer Cooper to the S in suspension but there isn't much in it.

I am glad (after reading many posts) that I can make my own opinion on the acceleration difference between the to. First of neither are back breakingly fast but both are fast. The Cooper S seemed to pull harder than the Cooper in the mid rev range and top rev range. Both are slow under 2000 rpm period. Although I have no doubt or problem in saying the Cooper S is faster I definately enjoyed the power of the Cooper more. If you work the engine how it wants to be worked it is fast and this gave me a satisfaction that the Cooper S was uncapable of. I could overtake easily with the Cooper and not much could keep up with it. A few times in the Copper on a dual-carrageway I kicked down to overtake a car going about 60mph and before I knew it the car was well in the background and I was going just over 90mph.

Since this test drive I am now as happy as a pig in *****. Any querys I had about acceleration from reading threads on here are completley gone. Any querys about the suspension firmness and gearbox, gone also. The MINI Cooper is just so much fun.

By writing this thread I am certainly not saying the S is a bad car or anything stupid like that. I just much prefered the Cooper in all areas. Cooper S is still a quality car.

I am now finding ways so that I can order the car earlier because I feel I am wasting my life without a MINI Anybody reading this that has a MINI, of any kind, you are one lucky mofo



Badboyz

[R1]

You feel about the same as me on the differences.

One of the salesman at my dealers once said that he has the choice of cars to go home in at weekends, and he doesn't really know why, but he prefers the Cooper to the "S"!

I had the go-ahead from the wife a while back to trade my Cooper in for an "S", but I just can't seem to part with it!!

I may go for a JCW works kit on my Cooper instead!
I know it's pricey, but at least I'll have a rarer MINI!

"S"'s and Works "S"'s seem to be all over the place at the moment!!

[badboyzbadboyz]

Yea R1 I have read your MINI Cooper and MINI Cooper S comparison and I agree with what you said. The Cooper S was fun, but not like the Cooper was. Although I can mention a few things I prefered with the Cooper I can't really explain why it was more fun ..... but it just was

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote:

Originally posted by R1


I may go for a JCW works kit on my Cooper instead!
I know it's pricey, but at least I'll have a rarer MINI!

I think you should test drive it first and see what its like. After all I thought I would like the Cooper S more because its more powerful but I was proved wrong when I drove both of them. This is something that just looking at figures won't tell you. If you do like it though I would say go for it. I prefer the rareness (if thats even a word) of the Cooper Works to the Cooper S. You should def look into it, but remember ..... sometimes less is more

[pcvillain]

Well that's thrown a spanner into the (jcw) works!
I am thinking of trading in my MCS for another. I was toying with the idea of trading for a Cooper instead of another S but didnt know whether i could live with the lesser power etc..
I know where you are coming from when you mention the box on the S. But i also heard that the coopers box aint much better.
Suppose I am gonna have to take a cooper out for a test myself now. But I will have to find a dealer prepared to let me have it for a weekend to get to know the car better.
I would like to hear from anyone who has actually traded from an S to a cooper and how the found it in comparison
Then there is also the cabrio option that i am also toying with
Decisions, decisions....

[Washy]

I have had both and personally I prefer the S. I just think it is a little more complete.
What I will say is in outright performance there is not the difference you would expect the 48hp to give.
I often drive home with Soggy in convoy and the only place his cooper loses out are the situations where he needs a bit of extra grunt for overtaking etc.
I still think that his car goes through roundabouts faster than mine.....there is something more direct about the handling of the Cooper.

I am actually trading my S in for a works S in September. Not neccesarily for the outright performance, but for the fact when I test drove one I just made me laugh the whole time it was so much fun....

Trouble is I have had to send the money I saving for my CBR600RR....

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote:

Originally posted by washy
I have had both and personally I prefer the S. I just think it is a little more complete.

Its definately just a matter of personal taste. I prefer the Cooper but by no means am I saying everyone will/should.

The gearbox in the Cooper is very different to the Cooper S, that is not questionable. What is questionable is which one suits your driving style better. Alot of people like the notchy gearbox as it can give a car a sporty feel.

I agree with washy that the extra 50 bhp in the Cooper S, which is 45% more than the Cooper, certainly doesn't feel 45% quicker than the Cooper. I do however think the Cooper S is NOT overpriced. I do think you get alot for the extra money you pay for an S but I personally just prefer the Cooper.

pcvillain - You might find that you have got used to the extra power of the S and that the Cooper is slightly slugish in comparison but then again this might not bother you. After all the Cooper is certainly not slow.
Some people say they prefer the handling feel of the Cooper, others say the Cooper S feels more solid on the road. Its all about what you prefer. If you are finding that the Cooper S isn't fast enough for you and thats why you are looking at a Cooper S works then I shouldn't think you would feel as happy in the Cooper. But that is only something you know.

In the meantime I'll be saving my penny's and selling my soul to the devil just so I can get my MINI a bit earlier.

[MarkW19]

The Cooper S is undoubtedly faster, you don't have to change down as much - the range is indeed there in most gears. But if you know how to drive your cooper - when to change down (and up), what revs each gear/speed is happy with etc., then it is a "fast" car - I noticed this on the motorway for 5 hours yesterday - the cooper is faster than the majority of the cars on the road, especially if driven well/properly for the engine. It's got good performance, which I am very, very happy with. But the S and the Cooper are 2 different cars, it's a personal preference as to which one you prefer :-)

[pcvillain]

Thanks for all your feed back.
I am now definitely seeking out a dealer who will give me an extended test in a cooper so I can make my own comparison.
It seems to me from what you have all said that it comes down to what you are most comfortable with.
I feel that with my S the box is a weak link and am wondering what it will be like after 30k miles, not that I will be keeping it that long. I find myself using the box a lot on the S and would not like to think it will let me down.
There is also the cost consideration. I could spend the money I save buying the Cooper on more options or tuning.

[Kinster]

Well I started off with a Cooper and moved up to an S and found it unbelievable.

[Spy Car]

Quote:

Originally posted by pcvillain

I feel that with my S the box is a weak link and am wondering what it will be like after 30k miles, not that I will be keeping it that long.

This thread is vearing off into unreality.

The Getrage transmission is an absolute masterpiece and is in the car because it is so robust. The weakest link by far in the Cooper is the Rover 5 speed which is marginal at best and is incapable of handling too much additional power from mods before the thing breaks. I would think long and hard about putting a JCW kit on a Cooper.

I can see how people might prefer a lighter, normally aspirated engine (even if it is a little slower) but lets not seriously compare transmissions. I hope the rumors of the Cooper moving to the Getrag transmission are true because that would really raise the level of the car.

Also pcvillian, you don't plan to keep your car for 30k? I don't get it? Personally, they are going to have to pry mine out of my cold stiff fingers.

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote:

Originally posted by Spy Car
This thread is vearing off into unreality.

The Getrage transmission is an absolute masterpiece and is in the car because it is so robust. The weakest link by far in the Cooper is the Rover 5 speed which is marginal at best and is incapable of handling too much additional power from mods before the thing breaks. I would think long and hard about putting a JCW kit on a Cooper.

I can see how people might prefer a lighter, normally aspirated engine (even if it is a little slower) but lets not seriously compare transmissions. I hope the rumors of the Cooper moving to the Getrag transmission are true because that would really raise the level of the car.

Also pcvillian, you don't plan to keep your car for 30k? I don't get it? Personally, they are going to have to pry mine out of my cold stiff fingers.

You are totally right that the Getrage gearbox is needed to handle the extra horses of the S and is all part of the car. Never-the-less this doesn't mean everyone will like it. I personally found it an effort to change gear at times, which is something that overtime would annoy me. Still, this is just my opinion just like you saying the 5 speed gearbox is the weakest link in the Cooper is yours. Its all about what you prefer. If the Cooper had the Cooper S gearbox I'm not sure I would buy the car. For me the Cooper S was ruined by the box but I prefer an easier smoother change and I'm used to less sporty cars.

I was speaking to a dealer about your comment of them changing the Cooper box to the S one but this appears to be untrue from what the salesman said. He said the S gearbox attracts a certain type of enthusiast, someone who wants a sporty feel but many people that buy the Cooper don't want this, if they did they would just buy the S.

[olarte]

THIS thread made my day... although I was lucky enough to find a red Chili mini cooper with all 3 option packages for $20,000! without having to order it... the dealer got a return\cancelled order, it always nagged me about the cooperS...

Now seeing so many advocates for the non-S model, I almost feel guilty for ever doubting my red mini...

[pcvillain]

Quote:

Originally posted by Spy Car
This thread is vearing off into unreality.

Also pcvillian, you don't plan to keep your car for 30k? I don't get it? Personally, they are going to have to pry mine out of my cold stiff fingers.

There is no way I am keeping my car for 30K.
I am looking to trade in next year I would estimate the car would have done 15K tops.
Just came back from a local dealer and he said the box of the S is out of an earlier model M3. I have driven an M3 extensivly and it felt better than my gearbox. Mine just does not like being changed too quickly. even after 7K miles it still doesnt seem to have worn in the way i would have liked it. The salesman also said the cooper box is from a Peugeot 205. Now they must have improved on that vastly because they used to feel like porridge.
Still I am booking in for an extended test in a cooper next week and will be able to judge for myself.
It again boils down to choice and I can only choose after my test.But the salesmaan also said that after talking to me for 10 minutes he thinks i will come back preferring the S after all I said to him.

[HarryHBMCC]

Cooper 5-speed box might be based uponThe a Peugeot design but is built by Midland Powertrain in the UK. The Getrag 6-speed is made in Germany.

My question is, why did the S get such tall ratios? It would jump out of the blocks compared to a Cooper if it had the same ratios for 1-5 and then had a tall 6th gear for cruising economy. As it is, the S has 50% more power but has 25% higher gearing and greater weight so from 0-40MPH they are about the same. Stupid design there, IMO.

Harry

[LuckyRVA]

The only gears I find to be tall in the S are 1st and 2nd gears. 3rd and 4th pull pretty good...good enough to pull on a 02 Mustang GT on the highway this weekend .



-Jason

[HarryHBMCC]

1st and 2nd are the most important for getting away though. Even 2nd isn't bad as you'll be shifting out of 1st at redline. 1st gear is the real problem. It is already too tall in the Cooper and WAAAY too tall in the S.

Harry