[MarkW19]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bonjour

Isn't the Magnusson-Moss act a federal law? As such it would bear no precedence over here.

Hmm, good point. I don't know! Dealer said replacement air-filter/exhaust (and wheels/tyres etc., other exterior enhancements) are the only things that won't affect the warranty. Gonna ring tomorrow though seeing as this thread has been brought up, cos I've got my Magnex coming next week!! :-)

[Tonyt3]

First off, tell them to take you to court. It quite clearly says "anmy kind of engine enhancement".... well the playmini exhaust is NOT an engine enhancement, it is not even directly connected to the engine. It connects to the bottom of the header/cat pipe. It does not even qualify as a secondary engine component, such as air filter/wter pump etc. It has no effect on the engine itself. It is down stream of the engine, and simply handles the waste gasses past to it from the Cat. It does not even contain the co2 censors, so this is not a factor either.

Secondly, go back to your dealer. Tell them that if they persist on this line, you will 'go public' to the whole Mini2 community about their position. That is what, 10,000 mini customers, with countless thoudsand prospective customers? Tell them that there are plenty of dealers who do honour TLC, and that if they want any repeat customers in the future from the current or future Mini2 user base then they should rethink their position. They cannot claim that you are libeling or slandering them in any way, as you are only repeating their own policey on modified cars. New Mini will be the most widely modified car since the Citreon Saxo fell into the hands of the Max Power generation. And we got a lot more disposable income than the Max Power kids..... Tell them that you will publish their dealership details and their position on TLC etc and you will organise a boycott of their dealership.

Don't let them push you around. They think they are going to get you for something, don't let the corporate bully win.

Tony

[MarkW19]

Ignore my comment about TLC = Warranty by the way. I'm half asleep, it's late! TLC = a way to pay for a particular servicing scheme (as we all know), not the warranty. Apologies

[MarkW19]

Agree totally Tony - good advice. I'm currently having trouble with my dealer.

I rang up 1 week after I placed my order (Cooper, £15100 total), to add cd-changer prep. He said he'd put it on. I then also asked 3 days after I collected my car (8 weeks after that) if it was on, and he said a sheepish "yes". I now found out, after purchasing a cd-changer that I really want in it, that he's screwed up my spec and has not ordered it.

Apparently, because I've signed the final invoice (with all added options since my initial order, everything on there EXCEPT cd-changer prep), that's meant I've approved the spec of the car so there's nothing I can do.

Just deciding which course of action to take. If they compensate me adequately (I don't want it putting in now anyway because I don't want my car tearing apart just for a cable) then I may decide to leave it. Otherwise, they'll have a fight on their hands.

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tony*t3

Tell them that if they persist on this line, you will 'go public' to the whole Mini2 community about their position. That is what, 10,000 mini customers, with countless thousand prospective customers?

130,000 + unique visitors last month.

The other poor thing, I feel, is the way various dealers take a different line/attitude on mods and warranty and TLC.

I'm going to read my warranty and TLC stuff all again, just in case. Cant wait to get the replacement car, and I hope I don't have any such issues.

Paul

[cfranklin]

Hi Again,

Just got a reply from Mike Allen (customer services Manager) and he has said that he will honour the TLC pack on this 'special case'. Apparently BMW are thinking of bringing out a 2nd TLC pack where after 50k miles you pay another £100 and then have another 50k or 5 years free servicing. They have said that I will not be able to take up this offer because of the Exhaust.....

Just to clarify a few points, it was my second service 20k miles, my exhaust has been on there a year (it was one of the first PlayMini Slash cut exhausts made) since then my car has been in 14 times for various recalls. for example its has 8 air bag wiring looms, 2 brand new seats, they changed these because my seat would not lock, LOADS of rattles etc etc.

[Grings]

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

Agree totally Tony - good advice. I'm currently having trouble with my dealer.

I rang up 1 week after I placed my order (Cooper, £15100 total), to add cd-changer prep. He said he'd put it on. I then also asked 3 days after I collected my car (8 weeks after that) if it was on, and he said a sheepish "yes". I now found out, after purchasing a cd-changer that I really want in it, that he's screwed up my spec and has not ordered it.

Apparently, because I've signed the final invoice (with all added options since my initial order, everything on there EXCEPT cd-changer prep), that's meant I've approved the spec of the car so there's nothing I can do.

Just deciding which course of action to take. If they compensate me adequately (I don't want it putting in now anyway because I don't want my car tearing apart just for a cable) then I may decide to leave it. Otherwise, they'll have a fight on their hands.

This pains me. When I was asked if I wanted the wiring, I said 'No thanks' as I don't ever want it mounted in the boot . But the dealers reply was and I quote

'but it's free, you may as well have it. I'll tick the box anyway so if you ever change your mind it's ready to go'

Just goes to show how different dealers are.

[SoggyCornFlakes]

This is kind of confusing. Is it BMW or the dealer that have said it was invlaidated by the exhaust, if it's BMW policy then all Dealers should be biding by those rules. But it does seem to me that some Dealers will happily do the TLC work regardless, so are they flouting BMW policy

[Bonjour]

It would indeed be good if we could have a bit of consistency. At least then we'd know where we stood.

[Richard Crofts]

The only 'approved exhausts are basically the BMWs and the JCW garages ones.

Thats what one dealer told me, they did say that they would check out for me any exhaust I provided and see if they would agree that they were happy to continue doing TLC and other wanantee work except busted exhaust or headgaskets etc related items to exhaust and attached parts.....this could still equate to a no everytime you provide one thats not thiers but at least they offered even if there no intent.

So try asking the dealer as well.

[ScoobyDoo]

just phoned my dealer, who confirmed that if you have a non standard air filter fitted it DOES void the TLC. also regarding non standard wheels your warrenty is voided if something goes wrong regarding the wheels and suspension and you don't have MINI / BMW approved wheels fitted.

But if I fit the original air filter back onto the car, the TLC isn't voided.

But phone your dealer and make sure 100% before you do anything.

[randap]

Hmmm. I like others thought MINI would have a hard time if they went to court over the "modifications to engine" statements. However on reflection, you have to remember that a warranty or servicing agreement is a "goodwill" gesture by the manufacturer and is not a legal requirement - only the Sale of Goods Act et al are the legislative requirements, and MINI could withdraw the warranty / TLC at any time. However, if you have purchased TLC, you could probably argue that the product is not as advertised (Sale of Goods) and claim a refund - but I suspect that is all and I think you'd have a tough time in court (regardless of the wording).

In short, if you went to court, and you won (unlikely) then you'd probably only get what you paid for TLC (or a portion of it) back...so is it really worth it? I suspect not.

Best thing to do is strike up a relationship with your dealer so that they are a bit more accomodating and may be happy to turn a blind eye to the TLC / warranty guidelines.

Same thing is true about m/cycles - everyone mods their bikes, but if your engine fails and you have an aftermarket exhaust can (free flowing = bhp+) then it's up to the dealer to honour the warranty.....

[Richard Crofts]

If you fit a panel replacement filter from K&N then you are OK.....my panel filter from K&N says this, something like 'the only performance filter that wont void your warrentee' (check their website too, I think I saw it there to)....I think its because the panel filter is not classed as a performance mod, whereas induction kits are. BHP increase from panel filters is negligable from what I can make out and thus cant class as enhancement (there may be a set rule that says any non standard part that produces a varience of less than 'x bhp' is not classes as a performance upgrade??!)

If you fit an induction filter eg one where you remove the standard air box etc then its void! (again maybe because of the 'rule', induction kits can gain you anything from 4-10 bhp from my experience and specs I have seen.)

The other option is that you run the panel or induction kit and then the weekend before you have the thing serviced you unbolt it or take it out and put the standard one back (naughty I know, but heck these garage companies try to diddle us out of money all the time so....)

[Richard Crofts]

Just spoke to a dealer and they said they were not sure on the K&N or Pipercross panel replacements but that they would go and ask there tech guys opions on wether it is better worse or same quality as the standard and if they would therefore think of still covering the car if it had one. Don't take my above as gospel, as maybe I have a US spec box??!

I think that Pipercross make the filters for MINI anyway though dont they?, or is it only the S or maybe I'm thinking of the JCW filter...in which case is this not classed as an 'approved' part like the JCW exhausts??

[Richard Crofts]

Just got this from K&N

Hello
Thank you for your enquiry. Fitting a replacement K&N filter cannot
invalidate warranty. The situation regarding induction kits appears to
change from one dealer to another even within the same vehicle make.
Regards
Don Marshall

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard CROFTS [mailto:RCROFTS.GOWM@go-regions.gsi.gov.uk]
Sent: 15 August 2003 13:30
To: uk.sales@knfilters.com
Subject: Warrantee Issues

Dear Sir/Madam

I note on the website www.kandn.com that the use of a K&N replacement filter
will not void a US vehicle warrantee. Please could you inform me is K&N
offer a similar guarantee in the UK on their products. I understand that an
induction kit will void a UK dealer warrantee as it is classed as a
performance enhancing product, but I am unsure on the technicalities of a
replacement panel filter.

Regards

[LMB]

I think it's ridiculous that EVO can take their Hartge Mini into Wolleston and get it serviced using the TLC voucher no problem. Yet others it's void if they simply fit a modified exhaust. EVO aren't the only ones either.

[Shamster]

the main thing to consider with all these variations is that dealers are individual businesses in their own right, just using the BMW/MINI logo.

And given this scenario I can see why there seems to be so much difference of opinion (although there shouldn't be).

I'm sure if all dealers were 'direct' i.e. BMW owned/operated you would see a much more consistent approach.

[Martin L]

As sham has mentioned each dealer is only a franchise apart from Park Lane, so everytime they agree to do something non-BMW approved they are actually putting their franchise at risk
I'm sure if BMW gets shirty they can refuse to pay the dealer money for the work carried out or worst still revoke the franchise licence. I wouldn't really want to post which dealer does do the work in here so not to put them at risk
By all means spread the good word but I would personally do it by PM

[v8voodoo]

Didn't the old exhaust err.. hole and you bought a new one to replace it off your own back, rather than getting them to replace it..? Just a thought..!!
Seems to me like BMW/MINI accountants have just realised what a bad idea TLC was/is for them..LOL!!