Correcting Oversteer

In light of recent discussion in another thread I thought it might be interesting to start a discussion on oversteer and the MINI

First off I'm assuming anybody that’s reading this thread knows what oversteer is and the fundamentals to correcting it in a FWD car.

Secondly take a look at the video of this Ariel atom (it is RWD but that is not what we're concentrating on here) http://www.mcwilliam.co.uk/downloads/atom.wmv ignore the whole video for a moment and watch the guys hands on the wheel. He does everything right up until the point where he can no longer put more lock on to correct the oversteer. He has to actually let go of the wheel to increase the lock.

Now myself being an enthusiastic driver and also having the opportunity to drive the Croft race track I have found myself to be sideways in the MINI on more than one occasion. Now relating it back to that video I too find myself in the same position that I am unable to increase the lock (with the crossing arms technique) to counter the oversteer... so my question is in scenarios like this how do you put more lock on to correct oversteer?

Mmmm no not really, was mainly brakes I was having a problem with

[ButtonIt]

I always thought understeer was the common with front wheel drive vehicles?

[mad brummie]

Well the real answer would be use pull push steering technique, you are always able to move the steering wheel further in either direction at any point in time.

<--------waits to get slated for using pull push!!!!

ps i'm not talking about the shuffle hands pull push here, the full 180 degrees pull then 180 push etc.

[Martin L]

Quote: Originally Posted by ButtonIt

I always thought understeer was the common with front wheel drive vehicles?

Lift off oversteer

@ ButtonIt/Max obviously I wasn't talking about power-on oversteer in a FWD car.. I am talking about lift-off oversteer as Martin said.

Have just been reading RedUn's thread over here: http://www.mini2.com/forum/general-discussion/34502-lift-oversteer-anyone.html about lfit off oversteer, this is what I am talking about.

BRG can you explain a little more perhaps? as if it rains tonight I shall try again in the homebase carpark but actually hold onto the wheel so it doesn't look quiet so messy when straightening up.

p.p.s Love RedUn's disclaimer in his thread. talk about covering his ass!?

[ButtonIt]

Yep, gotcha. Just read RedUn's thread. I have experienced that in My MCS a couple of times, but I tend to slow down a lot before I take a corner and power out of it.

[Paul]

Cure for lift offf oversteer? Don't lift off, coward.


(ps. If anyone follows that advice and falls off any road/track then that's your own stupid fault, drive safely folks.....)....

@ Paul! I guess that is one solution...

[mad brummie]

pull push steering,

instead of going into a bend with hands at 10 to 2 or quater to three and just 'turning' keeping you hands where they are - racing car style. Move the relevant hand (right hand for a right hander, left for left) up to the top of the steering wheel i.e. 12 o clock (without pushing the steering wheel) then pull your relevant hand down, turning the steering wheel. At the same time your other hand slides down the wheel to meet the 'pulling' hand at 6 o clock. The hands then swap roles the original other hand pushes the steering wheel up whilst the other moves to meet it back at 12 o clock.

With this techinique you can turn the steering wheel in both directions very easily and as far as the steering 'lock' i.e. turning into an oversteering slide (opposite lock)

apologies if this doesn't make much sense i didn't realise how difficult it is to explain in words!!!!

[Stuarttaylor]

Understeer is commonly associated with FWD cars (ie. the MINI)
Ovesteer is more akin to RWD cars.

I have experienced understeer many more times than oversteer with the MINI, but it can happen.

In the case where a RWD car oversteers, it is most commonly associated with the driver accellerating too early before the car is balanced in the bend, this caused the rear to loose traction, and to whip around trying to overtake the front (not fun). This can only be coutneracted by releasing the accelerator to allow the rear tyres to regain traction on their own whilst steering the car in the direction of the skid.

Understeer can be atributed to once again applying the gas too early, or entering a corner too quickly. The front ends up continuing along a straight line (as happened when I crashed my 7 week old cooper). Again this can be corrected by releasing the accelerator to reagin traction and turning the wheel in the direction of the skid.

Both are tricky maneuvers which can be a great risk to other road users if on public highways.

Trying to reach the lock without crossing the hands is impossible as the wheel turns four times from lock to lock. Unless your Mr Double-Jointed of course.

Stu,

First off nice car! Aero kit & IB/W perfect combination IMHO As I explained in the first post I assumed everybody knew what oversteer was and that I was talking about FWD cars but thanks for your explanation all the same

So anyhow onto my point () . The crossing-hands technique only applies when one would not need more than half-lock. So as BRG suggest it would be appropriate to use 'full push pull' steering?

For daily driving (parking and the like) I have taken to the 'cleaning-window' technique for fast lock-to-lock manoeuvring however I realise this would be completely inappropriate for controlling oversteer as its very imprecise..

Anyhow leave your comments

[mad brummie]

pull push is the steering technique the police use for training their drivers and they are about as good as you are gonna get. (road driving) Track use is different as track cars steering is geared differently so you can keep your hands in the same place on the wheel. see messers schumacher and montoya (the only time they need to take thei hands further is at the louwes hairpain in monaco!!!!!!!

I use pull push all the time and have never been caught in a position where i need to change my technique 'mid bend'

Mmmm you could be right Chris! I shall try to practise this on normal road driving. At the moment I find myself just crossing my arms to turn corners as I mentioned above.

But doh doesn't look like its gonna rain tonight!

Cheers,
> Dave

[mad brummie]

Have fun with it dabe, it takes alot of getting used too and will feel really odd at first, but persevere its worth it in the end.

Have fun (safely)

C