[Harry@Piekarnia]

It seems that BMW Poland have no problem expecting customers to drive round in cars which they know are unsafe. If you want your car to be safe or want something to drive while the car you paid a pretty high price for (the cost of my Cooper is equal to six years average wage here) then you are sh*t out of luck.

I’ve had a few problems with the lock on the driver’s door (usual thing, doesn’t open half the time and has to be opened from outside plus it sometimes opens and then locks itself when closed, which resulted in me locking the keys in the car with the engine running yesterday  ). So this morning I went to BMW in Warsaw to get the thing fixed. After waiting for an hour and a half they said “Sorry we can’t fix it. We’ll have the parts next Friday for you.” So I asked them what I was supposed to do for the next seven days? “We can provide you with a BMW 318 until then. It’ll cost you US$50 a day” came the answer!!! I replied that I was not going to drive a car which wasn’t safe and my car was not safe if I could rely on getting out of it in a hurry if I needed to. “Sorry, it is BMW Poland policy not to give courtesy cars” they said. I pointed out that they weren’t providing me with a courtesy car but with a car to drive while the one they had sold me was unsafe to drive but they said it was head office policy and they could do nothing about it.

So I drove home (VERY carefully) and phoned BMW Poland head office. The head of warranty said he’s see what he could do and call me back. At 3.30pm he called back and said they could fix the lock that afternoon and could I bring the car in. “Um, I took the morning off work to come in, I can’t take the afternoon off too. I finish work at 7pm and you close at 6pm.” I said. “Well it will have to be Monday then” he says. “But my car is not safe to drive and I’ll be left without a car until Monday evening” I say. “Your car is safe to drive” he says. “OK then, let’s swap cars. I’ll have your company car and you can have my Mini for the weekend” I propose. “Sorry, can’t do that” comes the surprising reply. “So it is safe to drive but you won’t drive it? That tells me all I need to know. Hang on a minute, how come you can suddenly get the lock today?” I ask. “We’re going to take it off a car that we have in stock” he says (I must point out that they have still not sold all the stock they ordered before the launch in May so that lock is at least 6 months old). I told him that I’m not going to accept second hand parts on my car. He says “Well you’ll have to wait until next Friday then.” “With no car?” “With no car”. At that point I had a sudden sense of humour failure and told them that if I had wanted Soviet style customer service I would have bought a Lada but I had bought a BMW and that BMW service does not mean using second hand parts or leaving the customer with an unsafe car for a week. I added that I am a journalist and thanked him for providing me with my story for next week.

About half an hour later I got a call saying that they would be opening the service part of the dealership specially for me on Saturday morning and that when the new lock arrives next week they will fit it for me then. The only problem is that they insist that I must drive the car to the dealer as they can’t get anybody to take the risk for me!

Does anybody happen to have emails of the head people for MINI in Germany or the UK? I think that they would love to hear about the ‘service’ being offered here in Poland…

[MiniMan7]

Ouch tough call. Over here in Canada, specifically MINI Woodbridge, it your car needs anything done to it thats under warranty you get a loaner MINI no problem. Can't believe they wouldn't even give you a loaner for free. Kinda strange.

-Adam

[stryder]

They can't pick your car up with a flatbed and take it to the dealer? That's standard policy for MINIUSA when your car is unsafe to drive, no matter how far you are from the closest dealer.

Seems like they're willing to work with you, but just a bit odd they don't go the extra step. Not like it'd cost them very much to truck your unsafe car in...

Of course since they're making so many adjustments, maybe you should cave in and drive the car? Its certainly your call on how safe it is. Is there a possibility the door would fly open while your driving? Or is it just the worry about it not locking or unlocking?

[Harry@Piekarnia]

The worry is that somebody smacks into the back of me (which happens a LOT here because Polish people seem to think that their cars stop from 100km/hr in about three yards) and I get stuck in the car while all round me is catching fire!

I'm shocked that a brand like BMW won't provide a car while mine can't be driven while cheaper brands like Renault always provide a loaner even if they are just fixing an annoying fault rather than a safety issue.

[moorlockx]

My dealer here in NC, USA doesn't provide loaners, either...and they're 2 hours away. I hope I never have to leave it overnight for anything. Talk about a pain in the posterior region!

[d2create]

Maybe it's just me....but I don't see the big deal and i'd drive the car. An inconvenience, but the chances of you getting stuck in the car and burning to death are about the same as getting hit by lightening. I don't think bmw was in the wrong here other than the fact that i think all dealers should have some loaners on site for emergency. Unfortunate for both parties that there is a 7 day wait, but not the end of the world. Just my $.02

[markjenn]

Your car is safe to drive, certainly for the distance to take it to the dealer to fix. Be a little flexible - you'll get through life with a lot less stomach acid. Youre making a federal case out of minor problem. Stop whining about it, take the car in, and let them fix it.

- Mark

[Hobbe]

The customer is always right, and a courtesy car should have been offered if the customer´s situation demands it.
However, I tend to agree that is seems to be a lot of whining over such a minor thing. The car is not unsafe in my opinion, but then it´s not my problem and not my car.

[Harry@Piekarnia]

If I wanted Soviet style service I would have bought a Lada. Even Daewoo offer replacement cars when the one you buy is off the road. And you can buy four new Daewoos for the price of a MINI.

If the car is so safe then why is it that people from BMW Polska are unwilling to drive it? Can't be the insurance as the car is insured for any driver at any time. I guess the guys from BMW Polska know that the accident rates here are a hell of a lot higher than in the USA or Sweden and that with the number of old death trap cars on the roads exploding wrecks are common (ever seen what happens when a car that runs on Liquid Petroleum Gas burns?).

And would you accept second hand parts fitted to your car when you've paid for a warrantee which states you get new parts?

[markjenn]

First, if you would read your warranty, you'll see that MINI has no responsibility to provide you a loaner car or to get the car from your home to the place of service. Virtually all car mfgs limit their warranty exposure to fixing the car and nothing else. And you'll find nothing in the warranty language that says they have to use new parts. It says they'll repair or replace as required to fix the defect - that's all.

Now dealers do typically provide loaner cars, do use new parts, and do bend over backwards to try and help when they can, but you've got to be reasonable and ask nice. Neither of which it sounds like you've doing.

Just drive your car down there and have them fix it. Jeez.

Customers AREN'T always right, as this thread clearly shows.

- Mark

[Cape Cod MINI]

Sounds like much ado about nothing.
If you wanted Ferrari customer service levels you should have bought a Ferrari.

[Harry@Piekarnia]

So I drove the car there this morning to have it there at 9am. They told me yesterday that it would take a maximum of 60 minutes to fix it. So we sat and waited and waited and waited. Every time we asked how much longer the answer was "Another 10 minutes". Finally after two and a half hours of waiting they claimed to have finished. So we went out to have a look. The housing holding the door pull and speaker was sticking out a good 10millimetres at the top which I pointed out. And somebody had put a 10 long centimetre scratch in the door panel as well so I asked them to fix that. Another 30 minutes passed and they claimed to have it ready for me. We went outside, got in the car, shut the door, pulled the handle to open the door and out pops the housing again, good job they fixed it for me. Pity that it took them three hours to do it and they haven't done it properly.

At that point I had a slight sense of humour failure (I did actually have a few things to do this morning and if they had said "It's going to be another two hours" I would have got a taxi out of there) and told them to try again next week. Perhaps they'll get it right when they fit the new lock (the one in there now is second hand).

To the posters above: Mark they did offer me a service car, as long as I was willing to pay US$50 a day for it. Do you really think that it is acceptable for a dealer to use second hand parts when repairing a car? Polish and European Union law say it isn't. I frankly don't give a f*ck what you say the warranty says, I'm interested in what the law says. You are welcome to give away your legal rights but I think I'll keep mine thanks.

Cape Cod MINI: My family have been driving BMWs for over 30 years now. I am very familar with the levels of service offered in the EU, USA and Australia. When I bought a BMW I thought I'd get the same quality of product here. I was wrong. I don't want Ferrari customer service. I'd like the same level of service offered by BMW in the rest of the developed world, or at the very least the same level of service offered by Daewoo here in Poland. If that is too much to ask then why is it provided as a matter of policy in the EU by BMW?

[Shamster]

I don't believe its a legal requirement for the dealer to supply a loan car here. Most do it to remain competitive with other dealers. However, one of the the reasons why I believe people have such different levels of customer care is because (certainly here) the dealerships are all independent businesses - just using the MINI or BMW name. My local dealer is only 2 miles away but the one I have given my custom to for the last few years is 12 miles away. This has been on the basis of the customer service. On the odd occasions when there have been problems they have always resolved them quickly and to my satisfaction.

[Harry@Piekarnia]

^ It's not a legal issue on whether they give loan cars or not. I know they have no obligation to do that. However when it comes to repairing cars they are not allowed to use second hand parts. How happy would you be if the brake calipers on your MINI failed and the dealer replaced them with second hand ones?!

I didn't get any choice with the dealer I use, the dealer was assigned to me by BMW when I bought the car.


On the plus side at least I finally got my owner's manual today, only 6 months after I bought the car. The one they supplied was in German (figure that one out) despite the fact that I'd said when ordering that a manual either in English or Polish would be fine as I speak both languages. French or Italian would have done at a push but not German. So there manuals were all in German when the car was delivered.......

[Shamster]

I hear what you;re saying on the brake caliper issue and of course no-one would be happy with that outcome. Over here insurance companies are also allowed to use second hand or reconditioned parts to fix a car - there is no obligation for them to use new parts. I guess one problem may be that there aren't enough dealers where you are so no-one to compete against. Out of interest how many other MINI dealerships can you get to within a reasonable time or is there only one for Warsaw or indeed Poland?

[Harry@Piekarnia]

Two MINI dealers in Warsaw, a total of four in Poland. The no loan cars policy however is BMW Polska policy, no dealers are allowed to offer loan cars (according to the guy who runs the dealership I use). That is supposed to stop the big dealers having an unfair advantage over small dealers.

[moorlockx]

The "used" part thing has me baffled. Are they taking the part out of a previously owned car that was salvaged? If they're taking it off a new, never sold car, then I wouldn't consider the part used. The minimal use a part like a door lock would get, in the trip from the factory to the dealership, would be negligible.

As far as the difference between the "law" and the warranty goes, we all know the BMW legal eagles are no slackers. You can bet the terms of the warranty fit within the confines of the laws in which it was issued. My bet is that if you were rich and bored and took the issue to court, you'd lose.

[markjenn]

Harry, I'm truly sorry you're having problems and it sounds like they did a bad job on the "fix".

My only point is that throughout this, you seem to be making the problem worse. When you start out threads with words like "contempt", it indicates that you've escalated your relationship into a very adversarial one. Sometimes you have to do this, but in this case, I think you went overboard.

If you have other service options, I'd start out with a clean slate somewhere else.

In any event, I hope you get your car fixed to your satisfaction.

- Mark

[Harry@Piekarnia]

It's not a new car they're taking it off. I know that for sure. BMW Poland have yet to sell all the MINIs they brought into the country before launch. The car was made in April at the latest. Or they could have decided to take it off the demonstrator that they are selling used. They were a bit less than clear on exactly which car they'd be taking it off.

On the legal side: my girlfriend's sister is in my appartment right now. She is qualified as a lawyer and works as a judge. Her professional opinion is that they are not entitled to repair under warranty with second hand parts. My bet is that BMW know about their reputation as legal eagles and play on that.

The contempt that they showed was viewing a fault in the car not as something which they need to fix but instead as an opportunity to make money. I've just checked the exchange rate and discovered that in fact they are asking US$62 per day for that 318, not US$50. They also have more than a few used BMW 318s which will be insured for any driver. They know that I drive low mileage (I've done 3000km in the 7 months I've had the car), how much would the value of a used car be decreased by an extra 100km on the clock? It would cost them almost nothing to lend me a car but they want to charge US$434 instead.

My service options are very clear, buy a Daewoo as everyday transport, I'll get better service from them. And get a Classic Mini Cooper as a fun car, the US$18,000 difference between a MINI and a Daewoo should get me a pretty fine classic Cooper!