[obehave]

Caught this on SPEED tonight.
Found the quote from Dave Depspain.
My Take??
Pretty funny
Talk amongst yourselves

"I'm asked a lot if I think this or that form of racing (and I've
heard everything from rally to motocross) will ever be as popular in America as it is in Europe. My answer is always "No" because there's a big difference between America and Europe.

It's the difference between the Autobahn and the Montana Interstate speed limit, which marked the death of common sense in U.S. transportation.

Europe is different...it's the difference between scooters filtering to the front at stoplights then going on their way when the light changes, and road rage maniacs shooting each other in stop-and-go logjams.

...the difference between Italian stuff and most of what we get from Detroit and Japan. The word you're looking for is "passion."

It's the difference between people who can't grasp the "Keep Moving" sign beside the right turn lane, and people who don't need that sign in the first place.

...the difference between parking your bike next to four old men who walk over and comment on the make and model, then drop the name of the '50s GP star who made the brand famous, and pulling into the same spot here and noticing the old men edge away a couple steps (except for the one who yells, "Wow, is that a Harley?").

It's the difference between automotive performance that only exists in TV commercials, and the same thing found every day, in real life - and appreciated, not looked down on.

...the difference between seeing one comin' fast in the mirror and moving right, and not having looked in the mirror since your last make-up job.

In Europe, the majority of people "get" this car and motorcycle thing. The American masses don't. Responsibility lies with a dumbed down, National Nanny, lowest common denominator Transportation Bureaucracy that insures a driver's license to anyone who can fog a mirror, then mandates a bags-and-belts cocoon to protect them when they run into each other, which is inevitable because they have no idea what they're doing out there.

Bottom line...a culture that can't grasp "slower traffic keep right" is not fertile ground for the growth of sophisticated forms of motor racing. If you live here and you "get" it, savor your place among the enlightened few, but don't expect the guys around the water cooler to share your appreciation of the German Touring Car series.

That's my take...I'd like to hear yours."

Written by: Dave Despain
Charlotte, NC–5/19/2003

[Bilbo Baggins]

How depressingly true. The average USA driver is a hopeless, thoughtless, coffee sippin', shave while you drive, make-up applyin', cellphone yakin' fool.

And why do they always end up in front of ME?????????????

[Johnny225]

Man, that is too true. Road rage, traffic jams, very sad. Oh well, it's the stupidity of us americans to drive massive SUV's because they are"safer", drive with cell phones, and not heard of a manual transmission. In fact, I know a lot of people who are unaware of what a manual tranny is, but that's not the point. Unfortunetely, there is nothing we can do here but tell people of this joy of motoring, and respect for other sensible drivers.

[Sejanus]

Then why do so many European countries have a higher traffic fatality rate than the United States?

[gabe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sejanus

Then why do so many European countries have a higher traffic fatality rate than the United States?

Well first off Id like to see some stats suggesting that. I've always read the opposite despite the much more dangerous roads and crowded streets.

While what Despain states here may be very much a generalization, on the whole it is just too true.

[mrhollio]

And there's the reason for his job.... to enlighten us all! Save us, oh brother Dave! Give us back the daily WRC coverage we had last year so we can learn to understand multi-day events better! Show us the error of our ways and help us understand why the rules changed mid-season! Remind us how nothing and no one good ever came from here so that we may have a greater appreciation for the rest of the world.

Be careful Dave, the great unwashed may stop watching and you'll have to sell pizza in Italy to buy your next Ferrari....

... and then again, maybe he's right?

[MiniAdventurer]

my take on it all? in england at least, slower drivers stick to the left. but if ur applying it to germany, then i find it amusing

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniAdventurer

my take on it all? in england at least, slower drivers stick to the left. but if ur applying it to germany, then i find it amusing

In England, its the LAW that your supposed to stick to the left. Unless you drive a Middle Management level 'quality' german car, in which case you can stick to the right.... (don't forget to factor in the "driving on the wrong/right side of the road stuff for us..)

I have to admit, after four years living in Germany, the autobahn driver is actually quite considerate. If you are doing twice the speed of him, he will usually pull over if in the wrong lane. However, that said, if he has to overtake somebody, you have to be prepared for him to just pull out....

What worries me about American drivers (going on holidays to Mickey's Gaff in three weeks time...Florida) is the amount of coffee being drunk while driving along. Drinking copious amount of coffee isn't a good idea... it just means your too tired to drive in the first place. Go to bed earlier, wake up feeling refreshed. Don't use this 'drug' to stimulate yourself while driving. It worries me when somebody lists "you can't get the three gallon Starbucks mug" into the cup holders as a MINI fault.... and after all this they give you a little shelf under the steering wheel to keep your guns handy...

you never see anyone drinking hot drinks behind the wheel in the UK. In fact, technically its against the law anyway.

What you do see is people using the mobile phone. The law has just made this an offense here in the UK, but I haven't heard of anyone being prosecuted yet.

[MiniAdventurer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tony*t3

In England, its the LAW that your supposed to stick to the left. Unless you drive a Middle Management level 'quality' german car, in which case you can stick to the right.... (don't forget to factor in the "driving on the wrong/right side of the road stuff for us..)

I have to admit, after four years living in Germany, the autobahn driver is actually quite considerate. If you are doing twice the speed of him, he will usually pull over if in the wrong lane. However, that said, if he has to overtake somebody, you have to be prepared for him to just pull out....

What worries me about American drivers (going on holidays to Mickey's Gaff in three weeks time...Florida) is the amount of coffee being drunk while driving along. Drinking copious amount of coffee isn't a good idea... it just means your too tired to drive in the first place. Go to bed earlier, wake up feeling refreshed. Don't use this 'drug' to stimulate yourself while driving. It worries me when somebody lists "you can't get the three gallon Starbucks mug" into the cup holders as a MINI fault.... and after all this they give you a little shelf under the steering wheel to keep your guns handy...

you never see anyone drinking hot drinks behind the wheel in the UK. In fact, technically its against the law anyway.

What you do see is people using the mobile phone. The law has just made this an offense here in the UK, but I haven't heard of anyone being prosecuted yet.

ok i guess i didn't explain myself properly... i meant we stick to the left, as in we drive on the "wrong" side of the road according to my american friends. obviously this also disregards mondeo drivers in the middle lane

i agree about germany. where i used to live at least, i think recognising a porsche 911 in the wing mirror was part of the theory test

[randap]

LOL!!

IMO, the main problem in the UK is lane discipline. Both on roundabouts and the motorways / dual carriageways, where the lines on the road mean nothing to a lot of people.

In France + Germany, there is much better lane discipline on the Autoroutes / Autobahns, but generally no lanes at all in towns and cities........

In Hong Kong, you see a solid white line, and absolutely no one crosses it . Wish that was the case in the UK.

As for the US, I find driving on the freeway refreshing compared to the UK - being allowed to overtake on either side is great as lane hogs are not a problem (like they are in the UK), and on the whole, folk generally travel at a similar speed (long live cruise control), whereas in the UK you have a range from 50 - 120mph with all the associated problems...........

[Sejanus]

Quote: Originally Posted by gabe

Well first off Id like to see some stats suggesting that. I've always read the opposite despite the much more dangerous roads and crowded streets.

Here you go...

From the International Road Traffic and Accident Database of the OECD. (2001)
First number is number killed per 100,000 population, second number is number killed per billion vehicle kilometers.

Austria 11.9 12.7
Belgium 14.5 16.3
Denmark 8.1 9.2
Finland 8.4 9.1
France 13.8 14.8
Germany 8.5 11.3
Greece 19.3 26.7
Ireland 10.7 10.9
Italy 11.1 n.a.
Luxembourg 15.9 n.a.
Netherlands 6.2 8.9
Portugal 21 n.a.
Spain 13.8 n.a.
Sweden 6.2 8.3
UK 6.1 7.5
USA 14.8 9.4

As you can see the US is somewhat on the high side (though not the worst) in terms of people killed by population, but that ignores the higher per capita number of cars and the fact that Americans tend to drive further than most Europeans. When you look at the second number which is vehicle miles driven the US is relatively low down the list behind Austria, Beligium, France (French traffic numbers are horrendous although recent crackdowns are supposedly having some effect), Germany, Greece (very scary) and Ireland. I suspect Italy, Luxembourg, Spain and Portugals numbers if available would be higher than America's as well. That "passion" Despain mentions seems to lead to far too many drivers who think they're an F1 driver and that their daily commute is a grand prix. Certainly US driving is far from perfect and there are undoubtedly certain types of driving misbehavior more common here than elsewhere, but most folks are fairly defensive drivers and far more law abiding than you find in some (not all by any means) European countries.

[minisoopercooper]

Surprisingly the UK is one of the lowest. As we are the most car populated country in Europe (being a fairly small country and all) it's alot better than I expected.

[randap]

Quote: Originally Posted by minisoopercooper

Surprisingly the UK is one of the lowest. As we are the most car populated country in Europe (being a fairly small country and all) it's alot better than I expected.

I was in Prague over Xmas, and was surprised to find that despite possibly the best public transport infrastructure I have ever seen (buses, trams, trains and underground), the 1.2 million people in Prague own 827,000 cars. Something to do with them being a status symbol - I guess a rollover from the communist days.

So much for the "invest in public transport to reduce car numbers" thoery.......

[gabe]

I would argue that the US should be fairly low due to the promenence of relatively straight, wide roads we have everywhere.

[obehave]

All this aside I do know that the last 5-10 years has seen a HUGE increase in rudeness and lack of responsiblity.

[adamlondon]

Quote:

I would argue that the US should be fairly low due to the promenence of relatively straight, wide roads we have everywhere.

Worlds Wildest Police Videos would beg to differ! Now I know that this program gives a stereotypical view of drunken hicks driving the wrong way down a freeway, but they have to get the footage from somewhere... Maybe if they made the driving test more difficult that would have some effect?

All the best,

Adam

[shiredweller]

Quote: Originally Posted by obehave

All this aside I do know that the last 5-10 years has seen a HUGE increase in rudeness and lack of responsiblity.

I agree. The drivers I see as showing rudeness and lack of responsiblity are those who try to drive much faster than the flow of traffic. I get the feeling that these are the ones that Mr. Despain thinks of as the "enlightned few".....but I could be wrong.

[HarryHBMCC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tony*t3

In England, its the LAW that your supposed to stick to the left. Unless you drive a Middle Management level 'quality' german car, in which case you can stick to the right.... (don't forget to factor in the "driving on the wrong/right side of the road stuff for us..)

In Ontario, Canada and I expect most other north american provinces, territories and states as well, it is the law that you keep right except to pass. This is the law everywhere, not just where signs are posted. Exceptions only where "Through Traffic Keep Left" signs are posted. And yet you find people doing the speed limit or 10km/h over or even 10km/h less thinking it is their 'right' to be there. It is not their right, they are in fact breaking the law. Traffic would flow much better if people understood this simple rule. It makes left turns into traffic easier (right turns into traffic for RHDers) as the left lane is generally open and it allows for proper passing where you get over as soon as you're done. If traffic is heavy and you are passing everyone in the lane to the right of you then it is OK to stay there but as soon as you are going slower, you have to move over.

On our freeways we find cases where the middle lanes are the slowest because people are there not wanting to be in the SLOW LANE (when they should be) because of all the merging but then what happens is people are passing them left AND right at the same time which is very dangerous as you have people trying to get into the middle lane from the left and right lanes, an accident waiting to happen. Passing on the right is illegal but the dolts driving slow in the left and middle lanes make it popular.

I'm glad they are cracking down on left-lane hogs here now. Overly slow drivers cause as many accidents as overly fast ones weaving in and out of traffic.

Harry

[Theo]

...are the lack of (1) education and (2) consideration.

(1) By lack of education, I am refering to the lack of being taught proper driving techniques and car control. Too many new drivers are put in a car and given only vehicle operation education. And, while they may be taught the "rules of the road", they lack the understanding of vehicle dynamics as it relates to their daily driver. I say put them through a practical course teaching vehicle dynamics, basic "near limits" car control and then log an amount of time on a autocross-like road course. I know that after I autocrossed for a year or two, I became more aware of how I drove and the car's predicted behavior in near-limit circumstances.

(2) Consideration; need I say more? Too many drivers seem to consider themselves empowered with the right to do anything while they are on the road. We are a "community" of drivers and should be aware of the impact our actions have on the other members of the community; especially when the risks of improper action are so high.

Sorry, had to get that out...

[Dark Silver S]

In Wisconsin, the signs used to say "Keep Right Except to Pass".
Now, they simply say "Slower Traffic Keep Right".
Obviously, there are some idiots who think they are not "slow".
Ah, the good ol' days.