[Virdi]

MCS or Civic Type R...? - What would you go for and Y..??

I can't decide......

[spillers]

I test drove both and the quicker car was the Civic, but the handling on the Mini Cooper S was better.
I bought the Mini Cooper S because the resale value's are probably the best on any car in the UK at the moment. The interior on the Civic was very plain and boring. I like the Mini because of all the optional extra's it is very individual, it would be difficult to find two that are the same.
At the end of the day it is very much down to you and what you want from your car??

[Mike Clarke]

Welcome to MINI2 Virdi, the only answer is MCS

The question has been asked before so try a search of the forums, good luck with your choice.

[EBMCS03]

MCS...


humm wonder what answer you get at the CIVIC forums LOL

[Barnabas]

MCS obviously. But over at Civics forums they'll probably tell you how unreliable MCS is, it's ugly, overrated British junk car, blah blah blah. They'll probably never mention the handling, well maybe some enlightened souls will, but seriously, Civics conjour up an negative boyracer image that you can probably live without. And lastly, it's a Civic! Come on, MCS hands down.

[Martin L]

Welcome Virdi

Good timing with your question, I test drove a CTR on Saturday.
I personally didn't like the car. The 2004 model is not as hardcore as the old model and is now very similar to the MCS handling wise. There is far more grip in the CTR but this could be down to the tyres. The problem with the CTR is it doesn't feel as alive as the MCS. It takes alot of effort to keep on the road as it darts this way and the other and torque steer is a problem I think. 200bhp through the front wheels one's got to expect that though

The engine however is a masterpiece

I didn't like the driving position either as the seats don't adjust much and my arm isn't long enough to comfortably use the dashboard gearstick

Overall though as a package it's fanatastic value, it's just not for me.

....and the CTR holds it's value even better then the MCS. A year old example will only loose about £1500-£2000

Ver difficult choice, but I went for a MCS as it's less manic and easier to live with on a day to day basis.

[EBMCS03]

Quote: Originally Posted by Barnabas

Civics conjour up an negative boyracer image that you can probably live without. And lastly, it's a Civic! Come on.

Ya I agree... i hate that civic image... rice rocket comes to mind... sadly but true... and i like the uniqueness of the MINI

[Virdi]

Some great points guys!! - Much appreciated...

I'm in a dilemma....

Have any of u MCS owners been up against a Civic Type R? - Surely the Type R must be quicker in standard form... - It's got more BHP and is slightly lighter at 1204KG....

I would still love to get an MCS and modify it to 200bhp mark - however then u have to worry abt the warrenty side of things

[Martin L]

CTR will kick the MCSs butt as you say it's got 200bhp and it is the fastest 0-60 fwd standard production car.
In the twisties however it's difficult to say. The suspension has been changed on the 2004 model, it is softer and might help it on UK roads where as before it was too jittery.
I think magazines need to do a comaprison again

[SoggyCornFlakes]

As Martin says, in a straight line the CTR will win, put a few bends in though and bring ont he MCS - far more fun to drive, and it looks great too

[Barnabas]

Quote: Originally Posted by EBMCS03

Ya I agree... i hate that civic image... rice rocket comes to mind... sadly but true... and i like the uniqueness of the MINI

Yeah especially here in SoCal where these things are a dime a dozen. Tons of Civic coupes with altezza lights, rims, tip/big exhaust, HID bulbs, etc...Blah.

I forgot that our UK brothers get the much more powerful Type R (I was thinking Si for some reason). The stats does look better, but I stand by my claim that "It's a Civic!". I really don't like the design, but I do have to say the engine is quite a feat of engineering.

[supercoopers]

Quote: Originally Posted by Martin L

....and the CTR holds it's value even better then the MCS. A year old example will only loose about £1500-£2000
.

Sorry to pick on this Martin, but in the UK this is simply not the case. The value of second hand pre-MY04 model Type-Rs are plummeting to just above 10-11K now for low-mileage examples. Also, you can't really argue with the figures of depreciation from the car trade: MCS will hold 65% of its value over 3 years in comparison to 55% for the Type-R (source Autocar, April 2004).

In any case, I am a big fan of Honda's cars since they are millimetrically precise in construction and their engines truly breathtaking for their capacity, but I personally like my 'Hot' hatch to have some character, hence my vote for the MINI

A standard MCS will be all over a CTR on a back twisty road as I have demonstrated 20+ times so far. With the engine and suspension mods I have planned for the near future, I should be looking to overtake them quite comfortably in a straight line whether on a back road or a motorway

Also, I wouldn't worry about the warranty side of things, just go stealth

Henry

[ChrisBuer]

Interesting thread.

I think if we’re going to compare the Civic Type R (CTR) to a standard Mini Cooper S, then the Civic will win in many areas.

Performance:

The CTR is quicker in a straight line, handles very well and has great sports seats inside. However, as it rev’s to over 8000rpm, it does require a lot of work. You’ll find that the Mini (especially the Works / Hartge / etc) has a lot more torque than the CTR therefore making it a much easier car to drive quickly. This also means that on the Motorway, a Mini would be quicker once higher speeds were reached.

Handling:

The CTR does have very good grip, but the Mini is very close indeed, if not better in my opinion. However, don’t forget this is with run-flat tyres that are quite simply dire. I read a test in CCC Magazine last year that said the Mini (S Works) was 1.5 seconds slower around a race track than the CTR, but this was due to its poor run-flat tyres. Put some good quality boots on, like Goodyear Eagle F1’s, then it would have been the quickest car there. I still have the run-flat tyres on my car and with the lowered suspension I’d say it handles almost as well as my old Elise. With better tyres I reckon it’ll be right up there with the Lotus!

Overall the CTR is a good car with great performance but it does require the driver to work more with the rev range. It is very good on the track, but that does have an adverse effect with its road mannerisms. It’s stiff suspension makes it a good track car basically, but this creates a negative effect on country roads.

The Mini however does have good performance and in standard form is not as quick as the CTR. However, tune it a little and it will be just as quick. Don’t forget also that the CTR is limited to tuning options – exhausts, induction kits and suspension is about all you can do, so don’t expect to see more than about 215-220bhp from a CTR. The Mini however is much easier to tune due to its supercharger, so you can expect to see a much higher BHP.

It depends what you want from a car. I wanted something that would be fun to tune, easy to drive on the road and unique. Everyone seems to have a CTR now where I live, so its nice to have something that is unique!!

[chilime]

MCS because the MCS just has it.....the Type R does not!

Type R is a nice car (if you like that sort of thing) but it 'aint a MINI

[dmholmes]

If we could just convince Mini to source the motor, transmission and seats from Honda for the next Mini. We can dream can't we?

[jon vital]

Are BMW going to listen to owners and change these run flat tyres for something better any time soon?

[Felty]

Basically, these are two great cars, with not much to separate them (certainly in real world driving) apart from the CTR has more space and is cheaper (after speccing the necessary factory options, and getting a discount of approx GBP1000) whilst the MCS, arguably, is slightly more desirable and can be better customised from the list of factory options.

The only clear difference if money is an issue in terms of running costs is going to be the insurance costs. There is hardly any difference in residuals in the UK. A lot of people just look at the % value retained after 3 years which is a guide not a definite and assumes firstly no options are specified (unlikely for the CTR and very very unlikely for the MCS) and secondly ignores any potential discount on the list price. If you take these factors into account, the CTR will still probably hold its value better, although the MCS may be slightly easier to sell on later.

Look at 2 year old trade/px values for either car and you might be surprised.

The same argument applies for other cars. Citreons might only be worth 35% of their value after 3 years but odds are you'll have shaved 20% off the price originally. BMWs might hold on to 50-60% but remember most people add 10-15% to the list price from options and get a small discount.
What would I buy? Heart says MCS, head says CTR

[Martin L]

Quote: Originally Posted by Felty

The only clear difference if money is an issue in terms of running costs is going to be the insurance costs

And is that difference large, double in fact!
I got a quote for one last week and it's £500 more then my MCS
I only pay £500 for my MINI

[Virdi]

MartinL - Only £500..??? How old are u mate???

[Martin L]

Quote: Originally Posted by Virdi

MartinL - Only £500..??? How old are u mate???

34 - max ncb - Esure