[Revolver]

I doubt this is the case but the manual implies that ABS is off when DSC is off, I think by including ABS as one feature of DSC (can't recall exactly, manual not with me). Is this the case?

[Martin L]

When you turn off the DSC this also turns off the traction control ASC+T and not ABS

[Ady]

The simple answer is no, turning off DSC turns off the stability part of the system, the part that monitors what the car is doing and makes adjustments. Although DSC and ABS systems are linked ABS operates seperately. I might not have put it well here but that is my understanding of the 2 systems.

Ady

[Theo]

Quote: Originally Posted by R50

The simple answer is no, turning off DSC turns off the stability part of the system, the part that monitors what the car is doing and makes adjustments. Although DSC and ABS systems are linked ABS operates seperately. I might not have put it well here but that is my understanding of the 2 systems.

Ady

R50 --

You are correct, Sir!

When the DSC systems predicts the car's impending flirtation with danger (via the g forces, speed, steering angle sensor, and other bits), it uses the ABS system's ability to modulate braking at appropriate wheels along with a throttle override to bring things under control. A DSC subsystem, Corner Brake Control, also uses ABS.

ABS cannot be turned off with the DSC toggle.

FWIW,

Theo

[phazer]

On BMW's (well on my ex e36 323i) if you press the ASC button in and hold it down for a while it turns off ABS aswell. Might work with the Mini's aswell. I believe it was a feature that BMW included for people driving in snow, as you can break faster in snow with ABS off, cause of the snow that "piles up" infront of the tyres.

[brassd]

Quote: Originally Posted by phazer

On BMW's (well on my ex e36 323i) if you press the ASC button in and hold it down for a while it turns off ABS aswell. Might work with the Mini's aswell. I believe it was a feature that BMW included for people driving in snow, as you can break faster in snow with ABS off, cause of the snow that "piles up" infront of the tyres.

Interesting I'd not heard of that. I'll try it on my way home!

Dave

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by phazer

On BMW's (well on my ex e36 323i) if you press the ASC button in and hold it down for a while it turns off ABS aswell. Might work with the Mini's aswell. I believe it was a feature that BMW included for people driving in snow, as you can break faster in snow with ABS off, cause of the snow that "piles up" infront of the tyres.

Doesn't work on the MINI.

[Theo]

Quote: Originally Posted by phazer

On BMW's (well on my ex e36 323i) if you press the ASC button in and hold it down for a while it turns off ABS aswell. Might work with the Mini's aswell. I believe it was a feature that BMW included for people driving in snow, as you can break faster in snow with ABS off, cause of the snow that "piles up" infront of the tyres.

phazer --

I'm pretty sure that in my E46, pressing the DSC button turns off DSC and holding the button for 5 seconds will turn off ASC+T, not ABS. I'm not sure that this is true for the E36, though. I will verify this with the bible (Bentley Manual), but I'm pretty sure there is no way to override ABS on a BMW or MINI. I will correct myself in a subsequent post if I have erred.

And Paul is absolutely correct; in a MINI you cannot turn off ASC+T with the DSC button like you can in a BMW E46.

FWIW,

Theo

[KlausR]

Quote: Originally Posted by Theo

phazer --
I'm pretty sure that in my E46, pressing the DSC button turns off DSC and holding the button for 5 seconds will turn off ASC+T, not ABS. I'm not sure that this is true for the E36, though. I will verify this with the bible (Bentley Manual), but I'm pretty sure there is no way to override ABS on a BMW or MINI. I will correct myself in a subsequent post if I have erred.
Theo

That´s fairly correct. To be precise just tipping the DSC button leaves you in traction mode, which doesn´t mean ASC+T is active, but that the brake intrusions stay active to prevent single wheel slipping but without throttle override. Holding the button for 3 seconds also deactivates the traction mode. ABS stays active all the time! Afterall there isn´t any single reason to deactivate ABS as it optimizes the braking performance and vehicle control under most conditions. The only conditions that result in shorter stopping distances without ABS are thick layers of snow and gravel which aren´t appropriate occasions for speeding.

Klaus

[HarryHBMCC]

Quote: Originally Posted by KlausR

... ABS stays active all the time! Afterall there isn´t any single reason to deactivate ABS as it optimizes the braking performance and vehicle control under most conditions. The only conditions that result in shorter stopping distances without ABS are thick layers of snow and gravel which aren´t appropriate occasions for speeding.
Klaus

Unless you're rallying of course... Even when not rallying, if you must drive in winter on a daily basis you do have to become used to the performance of ABS. It steers you straight which is good but on glare ice it sometimes feels like the car will never stop, even with winter tires. I still think it is best for most driving situations but the system could use some refinement. Its activation (both ABS and traction control) when going over bumps is most annoying.

Harry

[Theo]

Quote: Originally Posted by KlausR

{snip} To be precise just tipping the DSC button leaves you in traction mode, which doesn´t mean ASC+T is active, but that the brake intrusions stay active to prevent single wheel slipping but without throttle override. Holding the button for 3 seconds also deactivates the traction mode.
{snip} Klaus

Thanks for the clarification, Klaus! This applies only to the E36/E46 and not the MINI.

Theo

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by HarryIndiBlue

....but on glare ice it sometimes feels like the car will never stop, even with winter tires....

Experienced that for the first time in Abi's company car some years back. Scary stuff! I'm braking... oh crap, no I'm not..... aaaaah.....

[KlausR]

Quote: Originally Posted by HarryIndiBlue

It steers you straight which is good but on glare ice it sometimes feels like the car will never stop, even with winter tires.
Harry

I usually avoid driving on ice. But it´s true, if the friction is very low, the pulsation rate of the ABS is too high, so that the effective deceleration drops even more than would be expected from the slippy conditions.

@Theo
That adjustable DSC wasn´t even available during the whole E46 production, but was introduced on the 2001 model I think. The E36s had only ASC+T which could be switched off completely like today on the MINI. Actually there are quite many different versions and strategies concerning the access to DSC functions throughout the car market. After the moose test crisis the Merc A-class´s ESP cannot bei switched off at all and on some other Merc models the ESP button only alternates the cut-in threshold.

Klaus

[Theo]

Quote: Originally Posted by KlausR

{snip}
That adjustable DSC wasn´t even available during the whole E46 production, but was introduced on the 2001 model I think.
{snip}
Klaus

I believe the '99 E46s were still ASC+T. The '00s had the adjustable DSC...at least my 2000 328i does!

Cheers,

Theo