[rickwttgrf]

The biggest hurdle for the new MINI in the US market will most certainly be the "hatchback effect", where all models that belong to this group are seen as "cheap" or "economy cars" along with the fear factor of certain death in an accident with a Suburban. Very few hatchbacks drove well or had superior build quality, (Geo Metro comes to mind). If the BMW Brass can convince the population that the MINI is truely a world class small car, with style, provides superior saftey, and out-handles anything that has come before it, it will be very succesful.

[digidelia]

I think that Ford has helped quite a bit to demolish 'the hatchback effect' with the introduction of the Focus ZX3. It has been a long time since a domestic hatch has sold so well.

[rickwttgrf]

Still.............with an $18,000 base price (or so we think) for "a cute little hatchback" in a land of $10k-$15k(loaded), a very effective marketing campaign will be needed. The MINI should not be perceived to even be in the same class as a Ford Focus, or it will fail in the US. The tough part is for the MINI to BE TRULY WORLD CLASS, in quality, Engineering, and driveability! I think we are all hoping for that! 8D

[Boone]

You know, I can't speak for other regions of the U.S., but here in Southern California and in particular the L.A. area, "Griswold predicts" that there won't be enough Minis to meet demand. Granted, the whole damn place is car crazy, but I clearly remember the old Cooper S minis and the devoted following they had way back then. They were everywhere. A couple other examples:

1. When "Datsun" first introduced the original Z car in the early '70's ?, fist fights broke out in dealerships over the damn things: there were very few available and tempers were short.

2. Honda's two seater civic sold for approx. $2,000 over sticker until the supply caught up with demand, and that took months. It was a particularly small car too.

It's true that some things have changed: nowadays we're all at risk everytime some momma in a suburban is late to watch Ophrah or is having Jenny Craig withdrawals and busts the ass out of whatever's in her way. But as for me, I'll have to take my chances. We'll just all need air bags as big as the car.
Boone

[Yurinaut]

The US market is very funny about hot hatches indeed. I think the key to the new NINI being successful in the US is 1. being truly recognized as an upmarket car. Hatches are seen as economy cars in the US and 2. It's got to run the pants off of the competition which in my opinion, is the VW GTI and the Beetle Turbo. It's not enough just to out handle it [which is ultimately more important to enthusiasts], it has to out run it handily in the 0-60 catagory and in the 1/4 mile.

This gives it the full package: better styling, better handling, better power and better up market appeal.

-Mike

[tommy]

If I may get a plug in for my own car, there's a niche in the US that hasn't been filled since the crx and civic hb si were discontinued. Try to find one of these in good condition, it's pretty hard.

The current gti is nice, but a little too heavy. Of course, the mini is going to be about the same price range, so it'll be interesting to see how the mini does vs. gti.

As a side note, the BMW m coupe (and its same body with weaker engines) hasn't sold too well. Last thing I know is that they were thinking of discontinuing it.

Sad to say, but the US is a tough nut to crack when it comes to hatches. This car is also about $5k too much for the 18-25 year old who would be the "perfect" audience for it. We'll see...

[MINIAC]

IMHO too many drivers in the US are hung up on how fast a car goes from 0-60 and runs the 1/4 mile.

The original Mini Cooper S, which weighed about 1400 lbs and had 76 hp, was not that fast to 60 and would only do about 100 mph top end ... but there was no other car that could keep up with it in the extreme twisties. Driving the Mini was like driving a go-kart. I hope that the new MINI will offer the same driving experience!

[digidelia]

I certianly don't buy cars based on their 0-60 times or top speeds, but it has to be able to keep up.

I would buy a car more for its handling than for its hp. This car seems to have both.

[d. hale]

Quote:

On 20-02-2001 18:03:32 rwmatson wrote:
... but there was no other car that could keep up with it in the extreme twisties. Driving the Mini was like driving a go-kart. I hope that the new MINI will offer the same driving experience!

The VP of my department walked by this afternoon, and seeing this image on my desktop, was beside himself and couldn't keep from recounting the time in '68 when he took a Mini Cooper S out for a test drive in Austin, TX. With salesman beside him, he raced and beat a hopped-up Camaro through a winding road running through a city park. "He'd catch you at about 60," I said. "Well, yeah," he replied, "but on those twisties, nothing could keep up...."

Really, his eyes were rolling around in his head with the memory of it. He's still in love.

(He also said that if the new car handles anything like the old one, he'll buy one. I believe him).

So how many of those guys are there? Not 20,000, unfortunately. I am extremely curious to see what Crispin Porter Bogusky pitched to MINI. '60s modernism (an obvious angle) seems to me like a tough sell in a market where Blockbuster rents the most beautiful modern homes for their ad campaigns. I can't wait for that MINI campaign. It's gonna be like a cultural event for me.

[Reno]

I kinda have mixed feelings about the US market reaction. I know that I need one of these Minis,and I want this to be a sucess for BMW, yet I don't really want 'em to be too popular either. First of all, I don't want to have to pay a price too far above sticker, and let's face it, we want Minis because we're different than the rest of the sheep. We want our car to be different too.

[jim]

The new MINI WILL be a success in the U.S.
if BMW DOESN'T follow in the path of the
Chrysler P.T. Looser. Chrysler dealers
here on the East coast of the U.S. are
demanding $5k-$6k over sticker.

I'll buy a new MINI if I can test drive one
(shouldn't each dealer have at least ONE
MINI so customers can schedule a test drive?,
ie. serious inquiries only), and if
the price isn't above retail (which is a
joke to begin with). BMW: Setup your pricing
model and stick to it!

I'm interested in the MINI Cooper-S.
It definitely needs an aftermarket blower boost upgrade and some lower coil over shocks (struts?).

The cooper-s will be replacing my 1995
supercharged civic Si Hatchback. (156k miles)
I'm 34.
Jim

[jfunkhouse]

I am sure it will be successful here in Canada.

Here in Canada it is illegal to markup the price of the car. I know if a dealer I go to tries to sell me the car for more than msrp i will probably tell him to check his price or i am letting the authorities know. haha. Thank goodness for canadian laws! whooo hooo

Jay

[Arioch]

I think that the MINI will be more along the lines of the Subaru Impreza 2.5RS than a Civic. It's going to be a "cult" car. Just like the Impreza, the people that have one, or have driven one know just how good the car is, but there isn't a major appeal to the general public. The Impreza owners that I know are happy about the cult status of their car, and don't want it to be a "car for the masses"

I want the same for the MINI. Once I get a little more financialy stable (more cash!) I am either getting a new MINI or a used Impreza RS (NOT the new WRX - UGLY!) because not everybody has one. I like being diferent! :P

[digidelia]

haha jay,
I may have to make a trip up there to Canada if I'm going to get one...
what a great law.

scott

[jfunkhouse]

My friend has a 2.5 RS. And he is in the Impreza club. I hope to set up a club along the lines of that. I know all the guys in the club would really hate for the car to be popular. With the Mini selling around 20 thousand units in America i think ( could just be the states ) it should make it a little rare. Especially with only 75 dealerships in the US alone. I dont think it would be possible to have enough room to move as many cars ( not as much as say a beetle, golf or something like that. I think they sell like 75 thousand a year. I really hope that this message board becomes a giant club of mini owners. I know i am putting my order for my cooper S right when the buyers network is set up. I will order it 6 months before i pick it up so that i can pick the exact car.

JAy

[AlanB]

I think the time is ripe for a small car that is totally different than anything else on the road in the US. The New Bettle is nice, but nothing to stir the hearts of true beleivers. Problem in the US is MOST drivers covet large stupid urban vehicles (SUVs) and aren't really good drivers. A DRIVERS' car will appeal to a certain segment. A reasonably priced car as a decond driver will be especially sought after by people like me who want a weekend car but are not HOT for a BMW Z3, Toyota MR2, Miata, etc. This is sort of how I use my Cooper "S" right now! A lot of folks will do ANYTHING to have a LBC (Little British Car) other than a Jag!
I can't wait!!!!

[curiousgeorge]

I'm curious. Who do you think is the actual best prospect for the new MINI -- i.e., who will be most likely to buy the new MINI and who will BMW decide to market it to? Is it a younger 22-34, hip, urban hatchback or Impreza club member who will trade their current car in for the new MINI, or is it an older 35+ more affluent person who would by the car as a second "weekend" car? Is it the 18-25 year old that tommy thinks would be perfect, the VP of d. hale's department, or AlanB who wants a reasonably priced LBC? At @ $18k who's it going to be? What do you think? I'm curious. :?

[tommy]

I honestly don't know what the audience will be. Most serious people wouldn't buy the standard Cooper at 115 hp. That will probably be like the Camaro RS, aka, the secretary's car. It won't be fast, AND will come in at $18k, so I have no idea who will buy it. It would probably make a good autox car, but I'd guess it will be bought by the same people who bought the initial bunch of New Beetles.
Now, the Cooper S is a different story. Of course, you're raising the bar to $21k. But, the GTI will be redone for 2002 with 170 hp (more like 180), and the v6 will top 201, and both will be in the MINI's price range. Then there's the new integra, the wrx, and the se-r which will all compete in the same area. What will win people over will be people waxing nostalgic over the old Minis or the MINI's handling/appearance. Though it's such a small car, and there's so much lead time with this car that I'm guessing that many people will bail and buy one of the previously-mentioned options.