MINI2

TeamF1Jr · May 26th, 2001, 04:59 PM

On paper all of these cars are about the same power. They all have their own unique characteristics. The Honda with its rallye style shifter, the Focus with its alcantara interior and terrific suspension, and the Cooper is just that a Cooper. I'm sure the automotive magazines will have a head to head competition and I'd love to see who comes out on top. I've considered all of these models but I'm on the list for a Cooper S.

Phil (aka TeamF1Jr)

RickB · May 29th, 2001, 08:56 PM

I'm right with you. My short list is Celica GTS, Focus SVT and maybe the Acura RSX. All have similar power-to-weight and price (well, OK, the Ford will be $8,000-$10,000 cheaper than the Acura). The Cooper S will have a middling weight, but the least power. If it's handling dynamics are as great as we've heard, it will still be the most fun. Really, if my local dealer is going to give me the first-kid-on-the-block price gouge on a new S, I'll just move on. I'm sure it will be a very nice little car, but if the price is even $25,000, I'll start looking elsewhere. There are a lot of low-miles Porsche Carreras around at that price, and they're never going to be worth much less than that.

Jakx · May 29th, 2001, 10:12 PM

Sorry, but I`m thinking - what kind of car is RickB looking for!

One thing - in the UK you`d almost certainly never get a head to head test between any of the cars, or similar cars, that you refer to!

RickB · May 30th, 2001, 12:48 AM

I'm looking for something fast and fashionable. But also a good value. I buy a new Cooper S for $30,000, and five years down the road I'm sharing the street with brand new ones that cost $25,000, and my used one is worth $15,000. Not a very good value.

MINIAC · May 30th, 2001, 02:22 AM

Quote:

On 30-05-2001 0:48 RickB wrote:
I'm looking for something fast and fashionable. But also a good value. I buy a new Cooper S for $30,000, and five years down the road I'm sharing the street with brand new ones that cost $25,000, and my used one is worth $15,000. Not a very good value.

Where are you getting $30K for a Cooper S? Pricewise it will have to be competitive with a Turbo Beetle. No way it will be cheaper 5 years from now.

panto · May 30th, 2001, 03:01 AM

Hi from Mexico, about sizes the new mini is about 3.60 m, the Ford "K" is about 3.68 m, and the Hyundai Atos is about 3.50 m. I´am just taking about the cars that run down here in Mexico.

Yurinaut · May 30th, 2001, 01:24 PM

There is one thing missing from most al of the competitors listed above. Heritage. I don't put any of the above cars in competition (not the Porsche) with the MINI for my money. The Civic, Celica, Focus SVT (admitedly interesting) and the Acura are or will be literally everywhere. This is certainly only my opinion and everyone is free to buy and drive what they will but, to me and most all my car nut friends, none of the above are interesting at all. The MINI has style, performance and most certainly a history to reckoned with.

Since a used Maserati Ghibli SS Spyder isn't practical or affordable (grin), I plan to buy a MINI Cooper S when they finally get here. Anything else is, to me, not even a consideration.

-Mike
Charlotte, NC

RickB · May 30th, 2001, 05:47 PM

I don't know about other parts of the world, or even other parts of the country for that matter, but here, new cars often have a large extra profit tacked on to the MSRP. When the Viper was introduced, they were selling for $100,000 or more. A few years later, they could be had for list price. Is the one that was purchased for $100,000 worth more today than the one that was purchased for $60,000? The list price on the Toyota MR2 Spyder is $24,000. You can find one in any Toyota showroom, but the price will be $30,000. The new Lexus convertible is apparently so highly sought after that people are selling their waiting list spots on ebay. I am preparing for, if not expecting, the same thing with the MINI. If the car is everything that is claimed for it, in terms of build quality, performance, and price ($21,000. Is the Cooper S really going to hit U.S. dealers in Spring '02 with an MSRP of $21,000? The specs haven't even been finalized yet; how can the price be known?), it will be one of the great automotive bargains of all time. If the car arrives at Christmas of '02, with a delivered price of $30,000, I will not be shocked or surprised. A BMW enthusiast magazine had an article about the MINI a few months ago, and a BMW spokesman said the S would be priced competitively with the Z3. They're about $35,000, aren't they? I want a Cooper S, but I'm being realistic about what the car is and what it might cost to get one. Am I crazy to think a low-miles Porsche Carrera wouldn't make me automotively happy, if the MINI is used as BMW dealers' new cash cow?

MINIAC · May 30th, 2001, 06:54 PM

Quote:

On 30-05-2001 17:47 RickB wrote:
I don't know about other parts of the world, or even other parts of the country for that matter, but here, new cars often have a large extra profit tacked on to the MSRP. [...] I am preparing for, if not expecting, the same thing with the MINI. If the car is everything that is claimed for it, in terms of build quality, performance, and price ($21,000. Is the Cooper S really going to hit U.S. dealers in Spring '02 with an MSRP of $21,000? The specs haven't even been finalized yet; how can the price be known?), it will be one of the great automotive bargains of all time. If the car arrives at Christmas of '02, with a delivered price of $30,000, I will not be shocked or surprised. A BMW enthusiast magazine had an article about the MINI a few months ago, and a BMW spokesman said the S would be priced competitively with the Z3. They're about $35,000, aren't they? I want a Cooper S, but I'm being realistic about what the car is and what it might cost to get one. Am I crazy to think a low-miles Porsche Carrera wouldn't make me automotively happy, if the MINI is used as BMW dealers' new cash cow?

I agree with you in that some dealerships will charge "what the market will bear' for the Cooper S. There are perspective dealers who are guaranteeing MSRP however. I thought you were on a waiting list at BMW Northwest in WA. Aren't they committing to MSRP? If not consider buying out of state (Rasmussen in Portland OR or East Bay in Pleasanton CA) and breaking in the car on your drive home. In order for the MINI to sell in the US it will have to be priced to compete with the VW Beetle. One GSM I talked to said that BMW was not expecting large profit margins on the MINI. For BMW to overprice the car would be against their best interests. That's not to say that dealerships might not look at it as a "cash cow".

:O= Get on the waiting list of a dealership guaranteeing MSRP and refundable deposits, wait until the US prices are announced and then make a decision as to which car offers the most "bang (and class) for the buck".

kshapiro · May 30th, 2001, 07:37 PM

My understanding is that BMW will not allow dealers to add onto the MSRP. Anybody else heard this...it's a company policy.

MINIAC · May 30th, 2001, 07:58 PM

Quote:

On 30-05-2001 19:37 kshapiro wrote:
My understanding is that BMW will not allow dealers to add onto the MSRP. Anybody else heard this...it's a company policy.

BMW does not restrict US dealerships from marking up BMWs. In the SF Bay Area I've seen the Z8 marked up $100K and the M3 marked up $15K. I'd be surprised if one of the conditions of getting a MINI franchise was agreeing not to charge over MSRP.

jfunkhouse · May 30th, 2001, 09:07 PM

Perhaps some of you people should move to Canada where it is illegal to markup a car above MSRP. Good ol Canadian Laws. I sure am glad i live here. Perhaps it would be possible to get a car in Canada and take it down to the states. That is if you don't mind reading your speed in Kilometers instead of miles.

J

RickB · May 30th, 2001, 10:08 PM

Yes, I'm on the list at BMW Northwest. They didn't make any commitment about price, and I didn't ask. I have given thought to buying out of state and driving the car home; what a great way to see the countryside and get to know the car. With delivery a year or more away, I'm satisfied to be on a list. I'm trying not to be the forum killjoy, but a lot of supposition about performance, price, delivery dates, etc. is flying around, even as delivery dates approach. Maybe praying for MSRP is the most effective option, at this time.

jwilk · May 30th, 2001, 10:34 PM

Their are many BMW dealers that sell at MSRP just give them your buisness. I work with someone that is on list for an M3 at MSRP, the same dealer will be a MINI dealer so I assume they will be MSRP too.

MINIAC · May 30th, 2001, 10:54 PM

Quote:

On 30-05-2001 22:08 RickB wrote:
Yes, I'm on the list at BMW Northwest. They didn't make any commitment about price, and I didn't ask. I have given thought to buying out of state and driving the car home; what a great way to see the countryside and get to know the car. With delivery a year or more away, I'm satisfied to be on a list. I'm trying not to be the forum killjoy, but a lot of supposition about performance, price, delivery dates, etc. is flying around, even as delivery dates approach. Maybe praying for MSRP is the most effective option, at this time.

I was visiting friends in Portland the beginning of May and just for grins, dropped in at Rasmussen to see what their waiting list looked like. At that time they had close to 100 people on the list and 12 of the first 20 had requested a Cooper S. Once the dealerships are announced (this month?), people are going to be flooding the lists of dealers who are guaranteeing MSRP. Isn't the most effective option being on the list of one of those dealers? I guess you're OK if you're not in a hurry to get the car. Assuming all dealers getting equal allocations and 20,000 cars coming to the US in the first year, you should get your car by the end of 2002 if you're one of the first 300 on a list.

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MINI2

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May 26th, 2001, 04:59 PM	#1
TeamF1Jr MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: us Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 29 Offline	On paper all of these cars are about the same power. They all have their own unique characteristics. The Honda with its rallye style shifter, the Focus with its alcantara interior and terrific suspension, and the Cooper is just that a Cooper. I'm sure the automotive magazines will have a head to head competition and I'd love to see who comes out on top. I've considered all of these models but I'm on the list for a Cooper S. Phil (aka TeamF1Jr)

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May 29th, 2001, 08:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
RickB MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 775 Offline	I'm right with you. My short list is Celica GTS, Focus SVT and maybe the Acura RSX. All have similar power-to-weight and price (well, OK, the Ford will be $8,000-$10,000 cheaper than the Acura). The Cooper S will have a middling weight, but the least power. If it's handling dynamics are as great as we've heard, it will still be the most fun. Really, if my local dealer is going to give me the first-kid-on-the-block price gouge on a new S, I'll just move on. I'm sure it will be a very nice little car, but if the price is even $25,000, I'll start looking elsewhere. There are a lot of low-miles Porsche Carreras around at that price, and they're never going to be worth much less than that.

May 29th, 2001, 10:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jakx MINI2 Senior Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 632 Offline	Sorry, but I`m thinking - what kind of car is RickB looking for! One thing - in the UK you`d almost certainly never get a head to head test between any of the cars, or similar cars, that you refer to!

May 30th, 2001, 12:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
RickB MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 775 Offline	I'm looking for something fast and fashionable. But also a good value. I buy a new Cooper S for $30,000, and five years down the road I'm sharing the street with brand new ones that cost $25,000, and my used one is worth $15,000. Not a very good value.

May 30th, 2001, 02:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
MINIAC MINI Profiler Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: City By The Bay Local Time: 05:19 PM Posts: 8,620 Offline	Quote: On 30-05-2001 0:48 RickB wrote: I'm looking for something fast and fashionable. But also a good value. I buy a new Cooper S for $30,000, and five years down the road I'm sharing the street with brand new ones that cost $25,000, and my used one is worth $15,000. Not a very good value. Where are you getting $30K for a Cooper S? Pricewise it will have to be competitive with a Turbo Beetle. No way it will be cheaper 5 years from now.

May 30th, 2001, 03:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
panto MINI2 Newbie Join Date: May 2001 Location: Mexico city, Mexico Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 13 Offline	Hi from Mexico, about sizes the new mini is about 3.60 m, the Ford "K" is about 3.68 m, and the Hyundai Atos is about 3.50 m. I´am just taking about the cars that run down here in Mexico.

May 30th, 2001, 01:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Yurinaut MINI2 Sponsor & Moderator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: North Carolina Local Time: 08:19 PM Posts: 181 Offline	There is one thing missing from most al of the competitors listed above. Heritage. I don't put any of the above cars in competition (not the Porsche) with the MINI for my money. The Civic, Celica, Focus SVT (admitedly interesting) and the Acura are or will be literally everywhere. This is certainly only my opinion and everyone is free to buy and drive what they will but, to me and most all my car nut friends, none of the above are interesting at all. The MINI has style, performance and most certainly a history to reckoned with. Since a used Maserati Ghibli SS Spyder isn't practical or affordable (grin), I plan to buy a MINI Cooper S when they finally get here. Anything else is, to me, not even a consideration. -Mike Charlotte, NC

May 30th, 2001, 05:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
RickB MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 775 Offline	I don't know about other parts of the world, or even other parts of the country for that matter, but here, new cars often have a large extra profit tacked on to the MSRP. When the Viper was introduced, they were selling for $100,000 or more. A few years later, they could be had for list price. Is the one that was purchased for $100,000 worth more today than the one that was purchased for $60,000? The list price on the Toyota MR2 Spyder is $24,000. You can find one in any Toyota showroom, but the price will be $30,000. The new Lexus convertible is apparently so highly sought after that people are selling their waiting list spots on ebay. I am preparing for, if not expecting, the same thing with the MINI. If the car is everything that is claimed for it, in terms of build quality, performance, and price ($21,000. Is the Cooper S really going to hit U.S. dealers in Spring '02 with an MSRP of $21,000? The specs haven't even been finalized yet; how can the price be known?), it will be one of the great automotive bargains of all time. If the car arrives at Christmas of '02, with a delivered price of $30,000, I will not be shocked or surprised. A BMW enthusiast magazine had an article about the MINI a few months ago, and a BMW spokesman said the S would be priced competitively with the Z3. They're about $35,000, aren't they? I want a Cooper S, but I'm being realistic about what the car is and what it might cost to get one. Am I crazy to think a low-miles Porsche Carrera wouldn't make me automotively happy, if the MINI is used as BMW dealers' new cash cow?

May 30th, 2001, 06:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
MINIAC MINI Profiler Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: City By The Bay Local Time: 05:19 PM Posts: 8,620 Offline	Quote: On 30-05-2001 17:47 RickB wrote: I don't know about other parts of the world, or even other parts of the country for that matter, but here, new cars often have a large extra profit tacked on to the MSRP. [...] I am preparing for, if not expecting, the same thing with the MINI. If the car is everything that is claimed for it, in terms of build quality, performance, and price ($21,000. Is the Cooper S really going to hit U.S. dealers in Spring '02 with an MSRP of $21,000? The specs haven't even been finalized yet; how can the price be known?), it will be one of the great automotive bargains of all time. If the car arrives at Christmas of '02, with a delivered price of $30,000, I will not be shocked or surprised. A BMW enthusiast magazine had an article about the MINI a few months ago, and a BMW spokesman said the S would be priced competitively with the Z3. They're about $35,000, aren't they? I want a Cooper S, but I'm being realistic about what the car is and what it might cost to get one. Am I crazy to think a low-miles Porsche Carrera wouldn't make me automotively happy, if the MINI is used as BMW dealers' new cash cow? I agree with you in that some dealerships will charge "what the market will bear' for the Cooper S. There are perspective dealers who are guaranteeing MSRP however. I thought you were on a waiting list at BMW Northwest in WA. Aren't they committing to MSRP? If not consider buying out of state (Rasmussen in Portland OR or East Bay in Pleasanton CA) and breaking in the car on your drive home. In order for the MINI to sell in the US it will have to be priced to compete with the VW Beetle. One GSM I talked to said that BMW was not expecting large profit margins on the MINI. For BMW to overprice the car would be against their best interests. That's not to say that dealerships might not look at it as a "cash cow". :O= Get on the waiting list of a dealership guaranteeing MSRP and refundable deposits, wait until the US prices are announced and then make a decision as to which car offers the most "bang (and class) for the buck".

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May 30th, 2001, 07:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
kshapiro MINI2 Master Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 937 Offline	My understanding is that BMW will not allow dealers to add onto the MSRP. Anybody else heard this...it's a company policy.

May 30th, 2001, 07:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
MINIAC MINI Profiler Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: City By The Bay Local Time: 05:19 PM Posts: 8,620 Offline	Quote: On 30-05-2001 19:37 kshapiro wrote: My understanding is that BMW will not allow dealers to add onto the MSRP. Anybody else heard this...it's a company policy. BMW does not restrict US dealerships from marking up BMWs. In the SF Bay Area I've seen the Z8 marked up $100K and the M3 marked up $15K. I'd be surprised if one of the conditions of getting a MINI franchise was agreeing not to charge over MSRP.

May 30th, 2001, 09:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
jfunkhouse MINI2 Regular Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: ca Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 64 Offline	Perhaps some of you people should move to Canada where it is illegal to markup a car above MSRP. Good ol Canadian Laws. I sure am glad i live here. Perhaps it would be possible to get a car in Canada and take it down to the states. That is if you don't mind reading your speed in Kilometers instead of miles. J

May 30th, 2001, 10:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
RickB MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 775 Offline	Yes, I'm on the list at BMW Northwest. They didn't make any commitment about price, and I didn't ask. I have given thought to buying out of state and driving the car home; what a great way to see the countryside and get to know the car. With delivery a year or more away, I'm satisfied to be on a list. I'm trying not to be the forum killjoy, but a lot of supposition about performance, price, delivery dates, etc. is flying around, even as delivery dates approach. Maybe praying for MSRP is the most effective option, at this time.

May 30th, 2001, 10:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
jwilk MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Diego, Ca Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 98 Offline	Their are many BMW dealers that sell at MSRP just give them your buisness. I work with someone that is on list for an M3 at MSRP, the same dealer will be a MINI dealer so I assume they will be MSRP too.

May 30th, 2001, 10:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
MINIAC MINI Profiler Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: City By The Bay Local Time: 05:19 PM Posts: 8,620 Offline	Quote: On 30-05-2001 22:08 RickB wrote: Yes, I'm on the list at BMW Northwest. They didn't make any commitment about price, and I didn't ask. I have given thought to buying out of state and driving the car home; what a great way to see the countryside and get to know the car. With delivery a year or more away, I'm satisfied to be on a list. I'm trying not to be the forum killjoy, but a lot of supposition about performance, price, delivery dates, etc. is flying around, even as delivery dates approach. Maybe praying for MSRP is the most effective option, at this time. I was visiting friends in Portland the beginning of May and just for grins, dropped in at Rasmussen to see what their waiting list looked like. At that time they had close to 100 people on the list and 12 of the first 20 had requested a Cooper S. Once the dealerships are announced (this month?), people are going to be flooding the lists of dealers who are guaranteeing MSRP. Isn't the most effective option being on the list of one of those dealers? I guess you're OK if you're not in a hurry to get the car. Assuming all dealers getting equal allocations and 20,000 cars coming to the US in the first year, you should get your car by the end of 2002 if you're one of the first 300 on a list.