[mlebeau]

Hi all,

I have an 05 MCS on order, as you can see from my sig. However I've recently started taking a closer look at the VW GTI R32 and I'm beginning to wonder if I made the right choice. My previous car was a fairly heavily modified 2000 A4, so I know the joys of tuning a VW engine and the joys of all wheel drive. The 240hp engine in the R32 can, after $4500 for a supercharger kit sold by very reputable companies, be brought to 320hp. For another $1500, that can be brought to 350hp. That's some serious haul-ass power. I'm sure it's a blast to drive, and I'm going to try to get a test drive tomorrow at my local dealer.

But it has some downsides. The 3.2L engine and AWD come at a hefty cost, weight-wise. The car weighs 3400lbs - more even than my old A4! So it's not going to handle as well as the MINI (honestly, is there much that does? ), although I do have confidence in the abilities of a GTI highly modified for handling. Also, the car doesn't have nearly the number of cool gadgets as the MINI. As much as I'm into performance driving, I'm also really into gadgets in a car, and the MINI satisfies that beast in me for certain. The MINI I ordered has pretty much every option you can get, and it still costs less than the base R32, which has only one option - leather interior. Sure, I could do a lot of fun aftermarket gadget stuff, but the coolest gadgets are always OEM, IMO.

I figure I'll get a LOT of support for the MINI here, but I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on my decision. I'm pretty serious about the MINI, but of course don't want to make any decision I'll look back on and regret, so just covering all my bases. Especially if anyone has some experience with the R32 and can honestly compare it to the MCS, I'd be greatly appreciative to hear it.

Thanks!

-mike

[danbanger]

My guess is that there will many biased responses, just a hunch though. I would say to test drive them both (if you haven't already) decide which one YOU like better and if that pushes you toward the r32 side think if the money difference is worth it.

0.02

dan

[RobHardyUK]

trickey. There is many conversions out for the S aswell!!

[Wobert]

In the UK the R32 is based on the MkIV Golf......the newly out MkV Golf is 85% stiffer in torsion than the MkIV.......the MINI is around 3x stiffer in torsion than your average supermini.........QED!

Power is nothing without control......!

Robert

[Martin L]

If you can wait hold out until the new Golf R36 comes out
Even the new 200bhp GTI looks like to be a great car too
As stated already the R32 is based on the Mk4 chassis which isn't that great

[bluesmagoos]

Never been in an R32, but a friend of mine has a V6 4-Motion. Nice car, very very fast, & extremely well built, but you do see rather a lot of them - the MINI still has quite a WOW factor & driving one feels quite exclusive

Also, isn't the Golf just about the most stolen vehicle in the World?

This may, or may not put you off.

Decisions, decisions. I have had enough trouble choosing the colour for my MINI - glad I don't have to choose between that & another car!

Best
- blues
"You Spin Me Right Round"

[mlebeau]

Thanks for the info guys, appreciate the responses. I'm going to test drive it today. The thing is, in the Bay Area the R32 is actually MUCH rarer than the MCS. You see a lot of new MINIs around here, but I have seen only one R32. Also theft is not a big concern for me, it's very low in this area. But I agree that one downside is that it's on the MkIV frame. That will become outdated quickly (although it looks outstanding with the R32 bodykit), and it's simply an older design in terms of the technology that went into it... So I don't know. I suspect when I drive it today I will choose the MINI, but it may be a hard decision. I'm a big sucker for serious power, and I had convinced myself that I'd rather have something not super fast but lots of fun, such as the MINI... Hope I keep myself convinced.

-mike

[danbanger]

Have fun driving that yellow r32 if you go to Stevens Creek

[mlebeau]

I'll be going to Boardwalk in RWC if I do go, but I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother.

-mike

[lukebuzzy]

I wouldn't buy any golf when the new one is already out in Europe.

[Dutchy]

You're obviously into modding your cars, so maybe you could look at modding your MCS when it arrives. This would at least provide a good power boost - added to the already fantastic handling - would provide a very good package.
Otherwise, I'd wait until the new Golf arrives and try that one out.

Dutchy.

[mlebeau]

Dutchy,

Yeah I will definitely be modding the MINI if I get it (and by the way, I'm almost certain at this point that I'm sticking with the MINI order). There are some pretty hefty mod packages for the MCS, and I think I'll go that route.

-mike

[Poisonedwell]

I do admit it looks very bad-ass

[markjenn]

I'd recommend you go with the R32. A MCS is about nimble handling and value, not outright performance and it sounds like your primary interest is performance. Anyone who has interest in modding an R32 to 350-hp is going to find a MCS seriously deficient. Yes, you can soup up the MCS, but then the FWD chassis limitations start to become an issue.

IOW, the MCS is about less being more. Sounds like you want more to be more.

- Mark

[mlebeau]

Hehe, thanks Mark. I actually think I'm probably going to stick with the MCS... I have these two sides of me, the side that wants balls-out power, and the side of me that says I don't need that and it's just gonna get me in trouble. I'm trying to encourage the latter, and the MCS definitely does that for me. It satisfies the gadget geek in me with some awesome options, and still allows me to get my modification kick to some degree. Sure, it'll never be as fast as LOTS of things on the road, but I try to tell myself that's not as important, because I don't want it to be. It's still overall a really great performer, and I think I would always regret not getting it, no matter what else I ended up with. Spending lots of time over at Audiworld for the last 4 years I became very obsessed with performance figures, etc, and of course it's true that snapping your neck back when stomping on the pedal has a huge grin factor associated with it. But my last car, the A4, was totaled, not really due to reckless driving but a split second decision which, had I not been so obsessed with performance, might have gone another way and saved me the accident. So I'm trying to appreciate the other things about a car - when that devil side grips me though, it grips hard, and it's hard to shake.

-mike

[MINDGAME]

Both the R32 and MCS are amazing cars, and while they are both German hatches that are known for their handling, they are very very different in application. The MCS is an excellent auto-crosser; it's a super-charged, FWD car with excellent handling, and is fairly lightweight. It also has a fair amount of mods available for it (but don't expect a screamer even if you have an extra 5k to spend). It has an amazingly designed interior, and it has that cuteness factor going for it. The R32 is a race car. It is a NA 6-cylinder with IRS and AWD. It can be modded to the tune of 270hp and almost 300 lbs. of torque with a chip and exhaust (HPA offers a turbo-package to get her from 0-60 in 3.2 sec., but that'll cost you a little). It is bigger and heavier than the MCS, which is good for transporting friends and groceries, but a bit boggy in the front due to it's transversely mounted 3.2 litre. It has a beautiful interior with bolstered race seats and comes stock with a great looking body kit.

UK's CAR ranked the MCS Works #10 and the R32 #7 in their top sports cars of 2003 contest. I don't remember the issue number, but I would read that article for more information as to the advantages/disadvantages including practicality, real world handling/value, and mileage. I would also check out a similar thread on the Vortex's Car Lounge http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1493773 Though the link is through a VW site, the Car Lounge is a place where many different types of car enthusiast come to talk about all makes and models. The Cooper S is hugely popular on this forum. A lot of people there own them. Check out what had to be said.

Finally, my number one suggestion is to test drive them both separately at least twice each. I have driven both, and it is really night and day with these cars. I love both of them for different reasons and I am sure I too will struggle when I look at a new car late this fall as both the MCS and the R32 are my prime candidates (for now). Good luck to you and let us know what your decision is and how it works out in the long-term. I for one and really curious as these two cars seem to beg to be compared, but yet are so different that it they really don't line up nose to nose.

[Wobert]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINDGAME

Both the R32 and MCS are amazing cars, and while they are both German hatches that are known for their handling, they are very very different in application. The MCS is an excellent auto-crosser; it's a super-charged, FWD car with excellent handling, and is fairly lightweight. It also has a fair amount of mods available for it (but don't expect a screamer even if you have an extra 5k to spend). It has an amazingly designed interior, and it has that cuteness factor going for it. The R32 is a race car. It is a NA 6-cylinder with IRS and AWD. It can be modded to the tune of 270hp and almost 300 lbs. of torque with a chip and exhaust (HPA offers a turbo-package to get her from 0-60 in 3.2 sec., but that'll cost you a little). It is bigger and heavier than the MCS, which is good for transporting friends and groceries, but a bit boggy in the front due to it's transversely mounted 3.2 litre. It has a beautiful interior with bolstered race seats and comes stock with a great looking body kit.

UK's CAR ranked the MCS Works #10 and the R32 #7 in their top sports cars of 2003 contest. I don't remember the issue number, but I would read that article for more information as to the advantages/disadvantages including practicality, real world handling/value, and mileage. I would also check out a similar thread on the Vortex's Car Lounge http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1493773 Though the link is through a VW site, the Car Lounge is a place where many different types of car enthusiast come to talk about all makes and models. The Cooper S is hugely popular on this forum. A lot of people there own them. Check out what had to be said.

Finally, my number one suggestion is to test drive them both separately at least twice each. I have driven both, and it is really night and day with these cars. I love both of them for different reasons and I am sure I too will struggle when I look at a new car late this fall as both the MCS and the R32 are my prime candidates (for now). Good luck to you and let us know what your decision is and how it works out in the long-term. I for one and really curious as these two cars seem to beg to be compared, but yet are so different that it they really don't line up nose to nose.

If the comments you were making about the Golf referred to the MkI or MkII then I would agree totally with them....

In Europe the MkIV Golf has been available since 1998. The R32 model was intended to be a "swansong" to the last MkIVs, and to offer a higher performance model than that currently offered (Namely the V6 4motion).

Ever since it's launch, the Golf has been rightly compared to the Focus, Honda Civic, Vauxhall Astra et al. In many group tests the Golf has been beaten for ride and handling by both the Focus and the Astra.

The underlying issue is with the rigidity of the moncoque body. This is proven by the the "improvements" made for the newly released MkV.

Typically, the average improvement in torsional stiffness new model to old model, would be in the order of 20 -25 %. The MkV improves this by a staggering 85%.

Now this means either the chassis of the MkIV was like a basket of wet washing, or the engineers have "magic'd" from nowhere, a super stiff monocoque!

I'm not sure I'd describe the Golf as a "race car".......more a souped up family hatch......albeit with 240hp..........

In Europe, and particularly the UK, VW have marketed the Golf as a quality product, that crosses the boundaries of class distinction (as in it's bought by all walks of life). With each subsequent model the original character of the MkI has been diluted......it is widely acknowledged that the MkIV, represents the least of all the Mks.

This, I believe is being addressed with the 2.0l Turbo due out in Europe towards the end of '04.

Ultimately it's down to personal choice, and what you want from each car.........

Good Luck!

Robert

(ex-Lotus engineer)

[R1]

I must admit I find the R32 tempting.

If only the interior was more interesting to look at.

On the MCS V R32 question, I think you may find this interesting.

It's a post from (as Max stated earlier) "marriedblonde". He owned a very nice Cooper "S" and sold it for an R32.

Click here:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51552

[MINDGAME]

The thing that people seem to miss about the R32 (until they drive one) is that it is as far from a Golf IV as a Golf IV can be. Yes, everyone knows that the IV was not the greatest performer, but the R32 is the model to eradicate that fact. The only thing the R32 and the normal IV's have in common is the body and the name. Basically, the R32 is built with the same underpinnings as an Audi TT; it has the Haldex AWD system, the Audi IRS (not the horrible rear torsion bar from the Golf), and the same lock to lock rack and pinion steering from the TT. And the R32 is a race car. A showroom spec R32 (with the exception of the rims) is raced on circuit in Europe (I don't know which class), and took 1st place in its first race. Anyone that thinks the R32 is just a Golf IV with a 6-cylinder and AWD needs to drive it. It is really amazing.

Now, I am not saying that it is better than an MCS. That is certainly a personal preference. But to say the R32 is simply a Golf with more power is not an accurate summation whatsoever. It is so much more.

Lastly, I too would suggest waiting for the newly unveiled Golf (GTi) V that is being sold in FSi and TDi in Europe, but the North American debut is far from near. The original plan was for the GTi V to be in NA by October 05 (as an 06), but that has been delayed indefinitely. The rumored R36, which VW has actually scale back to be another R32, will be at least a year and a half after the release of the GTi...so look for it sometime in 07. However, the Jetta is still on schedule and will make its debut in the US in March 05. (I wouldn't expect it to be too much of a performer though)

[mlebeau]

Thanks for all the info MINDGAME. I can feel that good vortex vibe from ya. I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with the MCS, because I decided this time around I wanted to focus less on power and more on other things, and since the R32 is on an outgoing platform, the MCS is probably the better investment, something I am concerned with. I'm still tempted to drive an R32 but I don't want the power to seduce me into making a decision that probably isn't right for other reasons. Enjoy your 1.8t, wish I still had mine.

-mike