[Pitt101]

RE: BMW Mini Customer Care




I thought that you might to learn of a Mini Adventure with a difference called
“What do we care we have got your money”


In February 2004, I bought a Mini Cooper with a John Cooper Works Kit from a BMW franchise as a surprise present for my wife

Since then the car has been off the road 70% of the time with a total of 18 breakdowns twice when it has not met the requirements set down by LAW.


Fault 1. - Upon collection

Upon collection of the car we noticed that the car pulled to the left upon driving and more so under braking, we dove back to the garage to explain this to them , to which we told that it was the way the car drove due to the bigger wheels and tyres.(tram lining I think they called it )

After a week of driving the car, it still was not correct and we took it back to the garage and complained, to which I was then told that yes this was a common fault and they needed to replace the struts on the suspension.
This was done and a way we went.

Fault 2 -------- 5 days later

My wife gets stopped by the police 50 miles from home asking her “does she know that her car is illegal;” my wife was shocked to the core and asked why.

The car had been sold to us with White /Clear lights on the back and should have had reflectors inserted in the bumper to meet the requirements set down by law that all cars should have a reflector visible from the back for all drivers to see(in the UK).
My wife explained that she had only had the car 9 days and it was bought from the garage with the lights on.

The police office said that he could not let her continue to drive home with our two young children in the back as she would be liable should she have an accident and that the insurance company may reuse to payout as the car was illegal.

She then had to get a taxi home to Westend with a 5 and 7 year old.
Upon getting the car back to the garage, they admitted they sold the car with the lights and replaced them but said they did not realise that it was illegal?

3 days later my wife gets in the post a book from the garage/BMW offering us the added benefits of supplying us all the accessories we could need for the car to make it a right Mini Adventure and behold in big letters it states cars fitted with white/clear lights must have a reflector fitted to meet legal requirements.

First time my children and my wife’s lives were put at risk (driving a car while not insured)

Fault 3 --------.2 weeks later

Upon receiving the registration document from the DLVC, we found that garage had registered the car in a different name from the one stated on the insurance document and bill of sale.

So for over a month my wife had been driving around in a car which was not insured or actually belonged to her because in the UK you can not insure a car which is not registered to you. Again my children and my wife’s lives were put at risk (driving a car while not insured)
3 weeks off the road while the garage and DVLC sort it out


By this time m wife is becoming very unhappy with the car.

Fault 4,12&14 ---------1 week later

The airbag warning lights comes on, she parks the car up at the side of the road, and the garage collects the car only to be told yes it’s a common fault and it is the wiring under the seat. And that a replacement kit is available which should fix the problem.


Now it is getting hard for me to get my wife to drive the car, she does not trust the car at all and fears driving it with the children in as it may brake down again.

Fault 5---------7days later

While driving they car, the children complain that they are getting wet.
The seal around the rear window has gone and water was getting in to the footwall,
Again the car is booked in to the garage again , which at the end of they day we get a phone call from them stating that the window has been incorrectly fitted when the car was produced at the factory and that the window would have to be taken out and reset in the body frame .

Fault 6---------1 day later

After picking up the car, (and persuading my wife to drive it as she now feels total mistrust in driving the car), one of the children starts to scream in the back of the car, my wife pulls off on the hard shoulder of the M25 to find my youngest son has got his finger trapped between the windrow trim and the window.
What it turns out is that they did replace the window and the seal but just put the old trim on thinking that it was ok , but what had happened was that the window trim had warped in to shape around the old window setting and flexed open with the new window setting trapping his fingers .
The garage were very sorry and replaced the rear trim but my son still lost his finger nail.

Now my wife will not drive the car at all she is fearful of it and has taken to drive my car instead of the one that I bought for her.

Fault 7--------3 days later

While I was forced to drive the car, it developed a miss fire and as I was only 4 miles from the garage, I took it back to them where they said that the ECU was at fault and replaced it.

When I told my wife she went up the wall like a rocket.

Fault 8------- 2 weeks later

I managed to get the wife back in to the car, but again while driving along the road a warning light for the Air bag comes back on , so out she gets and calls a taxi leaving it at the side of the road.

Have you ever heard your wife screaming down the phone about this piece of Sh*t of car we have bought.

Car goes back to the garage again, to be told that it is the same wiring loom under the seat which has gone again, and arranges to fit a new part again.

It is at this time I voice my concern to the garage stating the car is unreliable and that my wife refused to drive the car any more and that I would like to speak to the manager about returning the car.


My wife now flatly refuses to drive the car and say’s that she never will again.

Fault 9------------2 weeks ago

We get the news that my wife’s father has suddenly died in Newcastle, and the funeral is arranged for the following Wednesday.

So on the following Tuesday my wife has no choice but to take the Mini up to the florist to collect the wreath.

I get a phone call from her in tears; that the car had broken down again whilst returning from the florist, with the flowers in the car on a really hot day.

So we are in luck as it has broken down 200 hundred yards from a BMW dealer.
She walks down to them explaining the problem to then only to be told that they can not help her as it has to be the BMW emergency recovery team that has to come out to fix the car or tow it in to them as if they do it we will not be eligible to get the free hire car

So she phones the BMW emergency recover team to be told that they can not help her as the car has been recorded with a different name as the owner of the car. See item fault 3

Now she is rally upset , the flowers for her father’s funeral are wilting in the heat of the car , I leave my meetings rush out to her ,to find her sitting on the pavement hands across her face crying her eyes out.

We change over cars and she drives home , I wait for the emergency service to arrive ,( 1 hour 30m) later he comes out spends 3 minutes looking at the car , says it is a common problem , and reset’s something within the engine bay and drives it the 200 yards to the BMW garage.


While the car is booked in to be repaired, I ask for the hire car to be made available as per the agreement as we have to leave to go to up north that day to attend the funeral which is to be held at 2:30pm the following day;

I am then told our car will be ready the following day and could I return the hire car to them upon picking up our mini.

I explained to them that the car will not be able to be returned until after we get back from the funeral 4 days later as we were leaving within 2 hours to travel up north, to which I am told that should we wish to keep the hire car and our car has been repaired we would have to pay the hire cost.

Well I blow my top and say stuff your hire car, I then sent my wife up to her mothers by train and I had to wait until the next day to get the car back and drove straight from the garage up north with the flowers etc and got to the funeral 33 minutes before the funeral took place.

Upon my return, I went to the garage where we bought the car from and explained that this was the final straw, and that wild horses would not drag my wife in to driving this car again and that I could not use this as my main car for work etc, and that we should be offered a refund on the car as it was not up to what it was bought for i.e. a reliable car for transporting my wife and children around.

The garage said they would get back to me and they did with an offer of £2500($5000) less then we paid for it, that does not include any of the paid finance instalments and all the Taxi and train fares, the 5 days I have had to take off work while waiting at the road side for the car to be towed in for repair.

The garage said that this was all they would pay and would not pay any more even after I went through again all the problems again which had got us to this situation:-i.e.

Selling us an illegal car in the first instance
Putting my family at risk twice because of their mistakes (Lights Registration documents)
The other faults etc.

No joy in getting them to increase the offer -i.e. (take it or leave it), so I phoned BMW customer service to be told that there was nothing they could do as the problem was with the dealer not BMW but would try .

So I got hold of the BMW Mini brand department thinking they would help,
“No sir we are not willing to help you “but have you phoned customer service

Fault 10
Sunroof stuck open

Fault 11
CD changer fails

Fault 13
Induction air filter comes off car whilst driving

Fault 15
Key fob fails



More to Come Read on

I phoned the garage (15/06/04) today saying that to help them out. I was willing to take on the mini and use it my self even through I am 6 foot 3inches tall and driving the car would not be the ideal solution, but as my wife refuses to drive the Mini I would be willing to do this
If they would be wiling to bring the car up to a level which would allow me to use it for work then I would accept the car.

I asked them to fit some driving lamps and a satellite navigation system to the car at their cost (est. £700/$1400)as this is what I have in my company car and is the minimum I need to use the car on a day to day basis

What was I told by the garage?

Was it

1.
“Yes sir” thank you for trying to help us out of this situation.
2.
That is kind of you sir, but we can not fit both as the cost is too much, but we will fit the sat nav as a gesture.

It was a straight NO No and NO saying why we(the garage) should have to pay out on the car.

Update as of 2 July 2004-07-20

Fault 16

Go out to the car to catch an early flight out of H/row airport, car will not startso we call out the breakdown service , who takes 2 hours to arrive, then spend 4 hours trying to fix it.
The car is then towed away , where they find out that all the electronics on the car have fried(their words not mine) they replace the main systems on the car and 7 days later I am told to pick the car up on the Sat at 9am .
Which upon picking the car up, the alarm goes off.

Fault 17

The garage resets it and we go home but while the car sits on the drive way, the alarm goes off 5 times between 10:30pm and 3:30am, then on Sunday 2 times between 11pm and 2pm (and we are not at home as we are away for the weekend not happy neighbours I can tell you )
We take the car back to the garage on the Monday to be told that the sensor mounted behind the sunroof has gone wrong and they have replaced it and it is all ok.

Guess what happens on Monday night

Between 10:30pm and 2 pm it goes off 2 times and we can not deactivate the system via the Key fob.

At 2:30 the police arrive on the doorstep after complaints from the neighbours, and while we are talking the alarm goes off again, so at 3am on the policeman is holding the light while I disconnect the battery.

The car it taken away by the garage again for 4 days , where we are then called on Thursday 15/7/04 to collect the car.

Guess what happens next

Fault 18

I go to pick the car up and a service attendant goes to the compound to bring the car around the 50 feet to reception, I see her duck in a side door and rush in to a office where they come out and inform me the car has broken down just driving it the 50 feet to the reception , I ask what has happed to be told that the sunroof opened and the windows wound down and the car just stopped dead.

I have now refused to take the car back and am in a loan car for the duration, but still no refunds.


In BMW words it’s a “Mini adventure” and stuff the customer.

[Rich-UK]

That's appaling, speak to a solicitor, you should be able to get your money back and hopefully your expenses.

What dealer is that?

[Pitt101]

Hi Rich,

I can not name them for that reason if we do not get it sorted within the nest few days then going legal is the next step.

I can tell you you that it is in Surrey

[hjacobs475]

Here in the US we have a "Lemon Law" where the dealer would have to take the car back and pay you back any payments or give you a new one, do you have anything like that in the UK?

[dansmini]

That is unbelievable! The MINI from hell, to be sure! I hope you get your money back and can get on your way!

[J1JPE]

ouch, loadsa sympathy - pls let us know what happens - you could even write to watchdog, what car, top gear etc - don't want to bring a cloud on MINI ownership but do think it's about time BMW and there dealers took owners' complaints seriously and improved there service; there are too many examples on hear of repetitive faults, bad dealer attitude/service, shoddy repairs and new cars delivered late/faulty, in crap coindition

[chilime]

That's outrageous!! You have my every sympathy and I hope that, with legal help if necessary, you extract every last penny from the dealer concerned to fully recompense yourself. It is nothing short of a disgrace and MINI, BMW etc, should be ashamed.

[SoggyCornFlakes]

Well firstly welcome to MINI2, you've probably made a wise move coming here to vent your feelings. As much as we all love our MINIs we all know that there have been lemon cars, a number of members here have rejected their vehicles due to faults far less seriosu than you describe. Persevere with the dealership -advise them they have sold you a vehicle not fit for purpose and they are oblisged under consmuer and trade acts to provide a refund - or a replacement. Advise that you will sue for full recovery of costs plus compensation for the stress endured by yourself, and your wife, particlalrly at her time of very sad loss - my condolences to you both.

Also send of full list - as descibed above but without the expletives - in writing to BMW custoemr Service and MINI , advise thm of the actions you are taking with the dealership. They are correct in that the dealership is whom must agree to refund, they cannot directly do that, but I'm sure they can provide some leverage. There are other dealers and BMW staff who frequent this site who will be dismayed to hear of your problems - it sounds like the dealership is being very unreasonable.

And feel free to name and shame the dealer, it's not your problem if they get bad press due to bad service - let them know publicity on here and the local papers will be part of your course of action.

Good luck with it all - and keep us up to date please

Bob

[ONED]

Shame and disgrace mate! I really do feal for you. You certainly did get a Pig it seems, and to make matters worse your dealers seem to be complete T*$$ers!
We've had a few faults with ours and some dubious service also, but normally a good F ** king Off soon sorts that out.
Reading through this I gather that your car was not Brand New when you bought it, this would affect how BMW will look apon this ie - Rejection, But I think as an act of good will from a premium brand, they would be able to sort this out, afterall if it were just a 3 door runabout you wanted for your wife you could have bought something else and saved yourself maybe £7 -£8 K ?????
Anyway you still have rights under your H.P agreement which enables you to walk away from the car.
As part owners of the car (finance company), - the goods they provided were not up to the job. ( I don't know where you stand on any deposit you have paid).
I'm no expert mate just feeling really ******ed off for you! but the next person that I would be speaking to is my solicitor, and the next time I'd speak to the dealership would be through my Solicitor!!!



Apoligies for the language, but this boiled my blood!!!

[Martin L]

Whoa
That really sucks. If the dealers don't comply get onto trading standards.

You don't specify if this is a brand new car or s/hand???

[Pitt101]

Sorry forgot to mention , ex demo car

[ScoobyDoo]

I think that by law (under trading standards) that if something is not fit for the purpose it was bought you can claim back a full refund on the item. This applies to items bought from a shop, but surely the same law applies?
I am also in contact with BMW and MINI customer services about the amount of faults that I have experienced on my 51 reg One. I am a little disgruntled over the time they are taking to get back to me, but if they are sorting you out first, no problems!
Feel free to name and shame the dealers, if they can't handle the bad press, let them come on here and defend themselves.
Please let us know the outcome at every stage. We are all MINI enthusiasts but we hate to see anyone having trouble with their MINI's, especially a fellow MINI2'er.
Condolences to your wife and yourself - you didn't need such hassle at such a sad time.
Helen
xxxxx

[Shamster]

If there is a finance agreement on this get the finance company involved via a letter from your solicitor. They have already paid for the car - I'm not a legal expert but your contract is with the dealer and the finance company. IMO they should be jointly liable in this case as you have been sold a car which is not fit for purpose.

I would spend some time getting your facts straight - dates, times, who said what to whom, copies of correspondence etc etc. Meet with the solicitor, spend some time with him so he is fully aware of what has happened. It may also be worthwhile asking him whether he should issue a 7 day letter to the finance company, the dealer, or both.

I would also ensure that any further communication is only done in writing or conversations are confirmed in writing.

Unfortunately, bar Park Lane all the dealers are individual businesses trading under the BMW/MINI name. BMW/MINI customer services, therefore *appear* to have limited powers in terms of how much they can twist the dealers arm. I have been through the rejection process myself and have to say that having a very good dealer means 70% of the battle is already won - shame yours hasn't acted as it should've.

I would also avoid naming and shaming - whilst we would all like to know who it is it may not be the right thing to do at the moment.

Good luck - I hope this works out for you.

[Intrepid]

Sorry you've had such a sad Mini experience - it's not meant to be like that.... Makes me mad!

I hope you get it sorted soon...

[ScoobyDoo]

Sound advice Shamster

[Iwan]

As someone who's about to order a new 05 Cooper, can i assume that this kind of unreliability/service is very rare?

[L13 Cooper]

I cannot believe this happened/happening, defo get some legal advice, i think you should get your money back and get a new car, this is outrageous! fight it and make them pay,

I feel sorry for you and your wife, really hope all gets sorted

Alex

[Apial]

The garage had to replace your front struts to correct a left pull? That would mean that it is a pre-March 2002 model. You also say that it is an ex-demo car. Now I don't know how long it takes for your dealer to to sell his ex-demo, but around here dealers sell off their ex-demos after about 6 months, making an ex-demo around here to be a Jan 04. Your ex-demo must be 2 years and 5 months old. Something doesn't add up. What is your chassis number? Your other faults all sound like early build problems that have now been fixed by redesign. Reading the long list of faults is like a summary of everyones faults added together since MINI2.com started. I would be really interested if you can find your cars build date stamp in the engine bay.

[SoggyCornFlakes]

Quote: Originally Posted by Iwan

As someone who's about to order a new 05 Cooper, can i assume that this kind of unreliability/service is very rare?

Hi Iwan - I think fromn teh reaction on here you can see t his is not normal. Unfortunately there have been some issues for folks, and more often than not you hear more about that than the good side as people shout more when angry. However the vast majority of MINI owners on here are very happy with their MINIs - I am and am on my second one.

Good luck - and happy adventures

Bob

[M1OUTT]

Hi all just to help out a bit more and to confirm what has been said under section 13 & 14 i believe if a good is not fit for purpose etc etc you are liable to take full compensation. I am a trainee solicitor and i know this for a fact if you even mention the act and section 2 them which if u want il get you they'll sh*t themselves. Also as previously stated mention things like you will report to watch dog which is another shi**er for them. To put anyone thru that kind of misery after paying there wages is how you should look at is disgusting il say one thing this would never happen in the US. If you do want the exact legalities of it email me and il send it you!