MINI2

ChrisGJ · Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:27 AM

Having no technical car knowledge at all!

- please could someone explain exactly what an LSD is and how it works?

all I know is everyone seems excited by it - the fact that it improves handling in some way and the fact they can now get it on a S for only £100 extra.

Cheers.

ButtonIt · Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:40 AM

It's a device which controls the way power is delivered to the wheels.

At the moment the MINI is a 2 wheel drive car. The front left and the front right. If for example the front left wheel breaks traction it will continue to spin, robbing the front right of drive power.

An LSD would only allow the front left to spin a little, keeping power and drive to the front right allowing the car to move forward untill the front left regains traction.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

<--- not a mechanic

ButtonIt · Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:41 AM

LSD = Limited Slip Differential

Wobert · Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:05 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ButtonIt

It's a device which controls the way power is delivered to the wheels.

At the moment the MINI is a 2 wheel drive car. The front left and the front right. If for example the front left wheel breaks traction it will continue to spin, robbing the front right of drive power.

An LSD would only allow the front left to spin a little, keeping power and drive to the front right allowing the car to move forward untill the front left regains traction.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

<--- not a mechanic

Not quite......

From first principles, the differential allows the driven road wheels to rotate at different speeds, while maintaining equal torque on each.

The torque at each wheel is always the same.

If one wheel is on ice and the other on tarmac, the car will not move.....as the torque at each wheel is not the same. Think of it as a pair of scales......equal and opposite.

The purpose of the LSD is to allow for torque to be transmitted in low traction conditions, where without, the car would not move.

Various types of LSD exist. The most popular use friction plates (a bit like a clutch) to allow a degree of slip. The amount of slip can be varied by modifying the clamp pressure on the plates / the number of plates or the material co-efficient of friction.

Robert

adamlondon · Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:03 PM

Could it be retro-fitted to a '04 MCS, and would it be worth it?

dhm · Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:18 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisGJ

Having no technical car knowledge at all!

- please could someone explain exactly what an LSD is and how it works?

all I know is everyone seems excited by it - the fact that it improves handling in some way and the fact they can now get it on a S for only £100 extra.

Cheers.

Have a look at: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm - gives good information about differentials, why they are used, and the different types. There is also generally good information on other aspects of motor vehicles on this site.

Update: also search the forums here there are several others threads about the LSD.

dhm

umberto · Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:22 PM

Could someone explain the diff between the LSD and the DSC and traction control in the Mini. I have a 2004 MC with DSC...does that mean it also has the traction control too?

ButtonIt · Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:36 PM

DSC is traction control plus a whole bunch of other stuff too. Basically DSC is an electonic management system, when it feels once of the wheels spinning it cuts the engine revs in order to help get traction back.

It also does a whole load of stuff with braking into corners and brake force distribution between the wheels.

Somoene techy will explain soon I'm sur

Wobert · Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:53 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ButtonIt

DSC is traction control plus a whole bunch of other stuff too. Basically DSC is an electonic management system, when it feels once of the wheels spinning it cuts the engine revs in order to help get traction back.

It also does a whole load of stuff with braking into corners and brake force distribution between the wheels.

Somoene techy will explain soon I'm sur

I think the DSC bit is controlled via a gyroscope to measure / monitor lateral acceleration (ie if the car starts to go sideways).....it controls the lateral acceleration by using the brakes to slow the wheel slipping and regain control over the laws of physics! (Altough the handbook doesn't quite stat that!)

ASC uses the ABS system in reverse to temper wheelspin, by monitoring wheel speed across the car. When one wheel speeds up in relation to the others. the brake is applied to reduce the speed (ie slip)

Hope this helps.

Robert
(Engineer.........not "techy"!)

ONED · Nov 3rd, 2004, 01:16 PM

Vote to legalise LSD!

KPKalle · Nov 3rd, 2004, 03:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ONED

Vote to legalise LSD!

Yeah, I never heard that LSD aided driving

vagt6 · Nov 3rd, 2004, 03:27 PM

No, but it greatly enhances colors and "vision".

Rob. · Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by KPKalle

Yeah, I never heard that LSD aided driving

Just what i was thinking

northandy · Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by wobert123

Not quite......

From first principles, the differential allows the driven road wheels to rotate at different speeds, while maintaining equal torque on each.

The torque at each wheel is always the same.

If one wheel is on ice and the other on tarmac, the car will not move.....as the torque at each wheel is not the same. Think of it as a pair of scales......equal and opposite.

The purpose of the LSD is to allow for torque to be transmitted in low traction conditions, where without, the car would not move.

Various types of LSD exist. The most popular use friction plates (a bit like a clutch) to allow a degree of slip. The amount of slip can be varied by modifying the clamp pressure on the plates / the number of plates or the material co-efficient of friction.

Robert

I knew this thread had your name written all over it Robert !!... lol

Wobert · Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:54 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by northandy

I knew this thread had your name written all over it Robert !!... lol

What could possibly make you say that.........

BTW I'm now in hydraulics.........working for a supplier of yours!

Robert

Wobert · Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:59 PM

Anyway, you're the second person to say something similar about me and gearboxes today.......what am I saddo of the year????

Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:27 AM	#1
ChrisGJ MINI2 Regular Join Date: Dec 2002 Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 59 Offline	LSD - explanation please! Having no technical car knowledge at all! - please could someone explain exactly what an LSD is and how it works? all I know is everyone seems excited by it - the fact that it improves handling in some way and the fact they can now get it on a S for only £100 extra. Cheers.

Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
ButtonIt The Disorganiser My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Waiting for others Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 15,546 Offline	It's a device which controls the way power is delivered to the wheels. At the moment the MINI is a 2 wheel drive car. The front left and the front right. If for example the front left wheel breaks traction it will continue to spin, robbing the front right of drive power. An LSD would only allow the front left to spin a little, keeping power and drive to the front right allowing the car to move forward untill the front left regains traction. At least, that's my understanding of it. <--- not a mechanic Sponsor our Rickshaw team, please click here for info

Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
ButtonIt The Disorganiser My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Waiting for others Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 15,546 Offline	LSD = Limited Slip Differential Sponsor our Rickshaw team, please click here for info

Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
ButtonIt The Disorganiser My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Waiting for others Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 15,546 Offline	DSC is traction control plus a whole bunch of other stuff too. Basically DSC is an electonic management system, when it feels once of the wheels spinning it cuts the engine revs in order to help get traction back. It also does a whole load of stuff with braking into corners and brake force distribution between the wheels. Somoene techy will explain soon I'm sur Sponsor our Rickshaw team, please click here for info

Nov 3rd, 2004, 03:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
KPKalle Knight of the Round Table Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Midhurst, Sussex Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 21,282 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by ONED Vote to legalise LSD! Yeah, I never heard that LSD aided driving Global Moderator

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Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
Wobert Mr 120d Sport Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chester, UK Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 4,678 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by ButtonIt It's a device which controls the way power is delivered to the wheels. At the moment the MINI is a 2 wheel drive car. The front left and the front right. If for example the front left wheel breaks traction it will continue to spin, robbing the front right of drive power. An LSD would only allow the front left to spin a little, keeping power and drive to the front right allowing the car to move forward untill the front left regains traction. At least, that's my understanding of it. <--- not a mechanic Not quite...... From first principles, the differential allows the driven road wheels to rotate at different speeds, while maintaining equal torque on each. The torque at each wheel is always the same. If one wheel is on ice and the other on tarmac, the car will not move.....as the torque at each wheel is not the same. Think of it as a pair of scales......equal and opposite. The purpose of the LSD is to allow for torque to be transmitted in low traction conditions, where without, the car would not move. Various types of LSD exist. The most popular use friction plates (a bit like a clutch) to allow a degree of slip. The amount of slip can be varied by modifying the clamp pressure on the plates / the number of plates or the material co-efficient of friction. Robert

Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
adamlondon MINI2 Senior Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Local Time: 04:41 AM Posts: 427 Offline	Could it be retro-fitted to a '04 MCS, and would it be worth it?

Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
dhm MINI2 Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 17 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisGJ Having no technical car knowledge at all! - please could someone explain exactly what an LSD is and how it works? all I know is everyone seems excited by it - the fact that it improves handling in some way and the fact they can now get it on a S for only £100 extra. Cheers. Have a look at: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm - gives good information about differentials, why they are used, and the different types. There is also generally good information on other aspects of motor vehicles on this site. Update: also search the forums here there are several others threads about the LSD. dhm

Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
umberto MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: worcester, Mass Local Time: 12:41 AM Posts: 168 Offline	Could someone explain the diff between the LSD and the DSC and traction control in the Mini. I have a 2004 MC with DSC...does that mean it also has the traction control too?

Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
Wobert Mr 120d Sport Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chester, UK Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 4,678 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by ButtonIt DSC is traction control plus a whole bunch of other stuff too. Basically DSC is an electonic management system, when it feels once of the wheels spinning it cuts the engine revs in order to help get traction back. It also does a whole load of stuff with braking into corners and brake force distribution between the wheels. Somoene techy will explain soon I'm sur I think the DSC bit is controlled via a gyroscope to measure / monitor lateral acceleration (ie if the car starts to go sideways).....it controls the lateral acceleration by using the brakes to slow the wheel slipping and regain control over the laws of physics! (Altough the handbook doesn't quite stat that!) ASC uses the ABS system in reverse to temper wheelspin, by monitoring wheel speed across the car. When one wheel speeds up in relation to the others. the brake is applied to reduce the speed (ie slip) Hope this helps. Robert (Engineer.........not "techy"!)

Nov 3rd, 2004, 01:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
ONED SUCKIN DIESEL!!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ballydung Manor ! Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 7,484 Offline	Vote to legalise LSD!

Nov 3rd, 2004, 03:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
vagt6 MINI2 Senior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: VA, USA Local Time: 12:41 AM Posts: 710 Offline	No, but it greatly enhances colors and "vision".

Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:04 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rob. MINI2 Master Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Middlesbrough UK Local Time: 04:41 AM Posts: 1,774 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by KPKalle Yeah, I never heard that LSD aided driving Just what i was thinking

Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
northandy AWOL My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2003 Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 14,614 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by wobert123 Not quite...... From first principles, the differential allows the driven road wheels to rotate at different speeds, while maintaining equal torque on each. The torque at each wheel is always the same. If one wheel is on ice and the other on tarmac, the car will not move.....as the torque at each wheel is not the same. Think of it as a pair of scales......equal and opposite. The purpose of the LSD is to allow for torque to be transmitted in low traction conditions, where without, the car would not move. Various types of LSD exist. The most popular use friction plates (a bit like a clutch) to allow a degree of slip. The amount of slip can be varied by modifying the clamp pressure on the plates / the number of plates or the material co-efficient of friction. Robert I knew this thread had your name written all over it Robert !!... lol

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Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
Wobert Mr 120d Sport Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chester, UK Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 4,678 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by northandy I knew this thread had your name written all over it Robert !!... lol What could possibly make you say that......... BTW I'm now in hydraulics.........working for a supplier of yours! Robert

Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
Wobert Mr 120d Sport Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chester, UK Local Time: 05:41 AM Posts: 4,678 Offline	Anyway, you're the second person to say something similar about me and gearboxes today.......what am I saddo of the year????

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