[justbob]

I hate to admit this, but as an American I've been pummeled to accept change.

Unfortunately, and to my great sadness in living within this Great Society, I don't particularly prescribed to the idea that, "Change is Good."

Measured change is good. Thoughtful change is good. Change for improvements in efficiency or performance is good.

Change for the sake of change is bad. It is decadent. It would have us all driving SUVs (did I say ASSUV? Whoops, that's another post...).

I love my MINI. I appreciate it for what it is. I am continually impressed by the design and engineering strengths that went into this car.

I think it is a Classic, begotten of a Classic.

So, I'm a bit perturbed when I hear inklings that MINI/BMW have major changes in the wind. Convertibles? Superb. Carbon fiber? Impressive. All Wheel Drive? Fantastic! Four-door hatchback? Sublime. All in keeping with the the Classic nature of both the original Mini and the design objectives of the MINI.

But changing the design of the New MINI after only 4-5 years? I'm shocked when I read reports that assert this. There is no business case for this. The factory can't turn out enough as it is--does someone just want to change for the sake of changing? Or is ego involved--"look at me! I changed the MINI!"

I'd like to think that I can buy a stock tin-top MC or MCS that will be largely identical to the new "Italian Job" models for years to come. It is near perfect for what it is--which is the definition of A Classic.

So, how about a virtual petition for MINI/BMW on this? Who's in? Who wants to keep the MC and MCS basically the way they are for the foreseeable future, or at least 10 years? Who loves their car enough to put their name on the line here for the continuity of a Classic--one that you own, by the way....

Let's run up some numbers. Do it.

[le_knut]

my dealer said they would never change the design of the mini (except for some minor cosmetics). Although new styles will be introduced, the look will always be the same. That's probably why there won't be a pickup and such.

Where did you read about the changes?

[justbob]

Quote: Originally Posted by le_knut

my dealer said they would never change the design of the mini (except for some minor cosmetics). Although new styles will be introduced, the look will always be the same. That's probably why there won't be a pickup and such.

Where did you read about the changes?

Here on the site.

There have been several postings, documenting the changes "planned" for 2006-2007.

Check 'em out.

The classic Mini did spawn forth a "van" version--I only know this because a good friend of mine in England told me the story of losing his virginity in one....

But the van was built on the classic Mini chassis and retained all of the same major parts--it was just a closed-off version of the same Mini that won at Monte Carlo.

[indimini]

Here's a link to the Mini's history. While I admire the intent of the thread, the fact is we live in world where change is often driven by external as well as internal forces. If you have read about the upcoming changes, you will realize that many of them are driven by the changes in the European laws governing pedestrian safety. The major change to powerplants was driven by the MB-Chrysler merger. While I mourn the loss of the Supercharger in favor of a Turbo, it looks like the new engines will be very good units capable of some impressive power output.

I think we owe it to MINI/BMW to see where they are taking the next MINI before getting all worked up about "changing a classic." Heck, if we started doing that, it would just be like the anit-MINI backlash that occurred when the new MINI came out. (It was not so obvious in the US where the original Mini was never a big seller).

Keep in mind that MINI represents a mindset on what it means to motor and that mindset can be defined by more than one design. justbob, you said yourself that you can accept different variations on a theme, so why not a variation that is the result of changes in the global market, laws and aesthetics?

[Rakey]

if change was stopped our MINI would never have been born

the classic would still be the one and only mini, the changes all come about not just for changes sake, but due to changes in road legislation, ie the classic was no longer able to meet the testing requirments, the MINI was born, the MINI will soon fail to meet pedestrian impact tests or fit the new and better engines, there fore the new NEW MINI will be born

[Hat]

if we don't accept change we end up just the same as those luddite classic owners sneering at the new mini whilst sitting in their rusty old tins. the classic mini went through many changes including several changes in the compay that built them but they still remained minis with the basic shape remaining the same.

[Paul]

If they don't evolve the new MINI, it will end up like the new Beetle, and come to an end all too soon.......

[craigsyboo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

If they don't evolve the new MINI, it will end up like the new Beetle, and come to an end all too soon.......

That is quite true, but even in your own review of the facelifted version of the Cooper you said that a lot of the "revisions" were not very well carried out - moving the clock, new interior lights, cheap plastics etc.

Having owned a pre- and post-facelifted model, I would have to agree that most of the changes are not welcome ones. Sure, the external revisions to the bumpers make the car look better in my view but nothing on the inside has been improved.

I had no problems with the dash on my old one yet the new dash, which was meant to improve build quality and cut down the chances of unwanted noise, rattles and creaks like mad - despite a total of 12 days at the dealer to try and remedy it!

And the less said about the racket the new gearbox makes, the better.... I believe a revised clutch is on it's way to partly counteract this, but why has it taken 6-7 months after the model was launched before this has happened? Do MINI not test new equipment?!

And this from just a facelift - all I can say is that I hope for all our sakes they make a better job of the total revision due 2007.

[Paul]

Just because I don't like or agree with all the changes made, some of them I think are particularly bad, the car wasn't perfect in the first place, and neither will the next generation MINI, but things have got to keep moving on, keep things fresh. I personally would think it could get incredibly boring if it didn't.

[keitht]

My two pence worth
I agree that things have to change with progress, thats just a way of life.
AWD oh yes please.
But a 4 door MINI just aint a MINI.
I would like to see the supercharger stay its another thing that makes it different from everything else out there.
Hopefully the changes wont be too drastic.

[mini vanilli]

i am looking forward to the changes. my 2005 MC is three months old with almost 7,000 miles on it. so when we get some true, REAL pictures maybe a year before the new mini comes out i will decide then. either get one of the last 2006s and start fresh with 0 miles and have the current design, or get a newer 2007. either way i will be driving a mini (the style that i like no matter which one that might end up being) for the next 8-10 years. looking any further would be foolish.

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by keitht

My two pence worth
I agree that things have to change with progress, thats just a way of life.
AWD oh yes please.
But a 4 door MINI just aint a MINI.
I would like to see the supercharger stay its another thing that makes it different from everything else out there.
Hopefully the changes wont be too drastic.

a 4 door MINI is probably more a MINI than an AWD or a MINI with a supercharger

the classic never had a supercharger or AWD, prototypes were at least made with 4 doors and custom jobs



I think the spy shots make the new NEW MINI look a bit more of a beast

[speedsman]

Its always the same when they bring out a revised model to get us buy it. If they kept producing the same thing for the next 20 years why would people want to change their car. People generally change because the newer model is better more gagets, faster, more reliable, looks better, handles better, more economical. I would guess that all of those are on the agenda for the next model. BMW also have a hidden agenda they realise that the mini costs them alot to produce so they want to make it cheaper so they can make more profit. Simple market forces really. They did'nt expect to have sold this many minis by now, they have the want to sell more and make more money. Lets hope they do a good job otherwise they may take the fun and the appeal out of the mini.

[Baz F]

I'm quite curious about the changes, but fighting some initial resentment towards any drastic cosmetic moves such as the bonnet design. Not to mention the idea of ditching the supercharger.
However, I didn't like the idea of the new mini at first, being a former classic owner. Now I love it and see it as a natural progression of the mini marque irrespective of ownership.
I'll reserve judgement and hope for the best.

[bubblegoose]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

If they don't evolve the new MINI, it will end up like the new Beetle, and come to an end all too soon.......

very true.... very true indeed.

[dansmini]

I can honestly see all sides of this discussion. I love my MINI and I can't really think of anything I would want to change about it. The demand has been so huge it does seem a bit hasty to go making any sort of drastic changes to the basic design. I understand the sentiment of wanting to keep this version around, as everyone on this forum loves it (apparently). Comparing this sentiment to the outright hatred some classic owners have shown towards the new MINI is not, IMHO, accurate. My guess is they hate the new MINI because it has better build quality, performance, and looks than the car they love so much. I suspect they do not hate the new MINI because they honestly think their classic is a better car, but exactly the opposite. Our thread starter here is merely making a case for keeping the car as it is for a while. I think that is a legitimate argument given the cars success. I can understand Paul's concern that the MINI might go the way of the new Beetle if no changes are made, but I also think the new Beetle had only unique appearance going for it. The MINI has appearance, performance and fun-driving factors the new Beetle couldn't dream of achieving, and IMO these factors will outlast some "fad", like the new Beetle. As for the new 2007 MINI, like others, I will reserve judgement until the final product can be accurately seen. Maybe the final design will, overall, improve the looks and performance of the car. Or, maybe it will be like most of our American cars and go faster but look pants. Or none of the above? Who knows?

[DeadCanDanceR]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey

if change was stopped our MINI would never have been born

That's true but...we have to differentiate things.

The original Mini was a totally new car when it was first shown back in 1959, and it went through the usual changes (both mechanical and aesthetic), just as any other car. That is absolutely normal.
On the other hand, the new MINI (like the new Beetle) is an altogether different car! It is the result of a design fad where a new car is created to resemble or evoque an older one! We've seen several different ways in which this fad has brought back either a certain flavour from past classics (Jaguar S-type, new Chrysler 300 and PT Cruiser, etc.), or new interpretations of the whole original car (MINI, Beetle, 2005 Mustang).
The new MINI has become such a modern design icon that it has developed into a classic in it's own right, and I really doubt that BMW would redesign or facelift it radically without risking the new MINI's image. If the MINI is dramatically changed it would loose that special mystique that it already has aquired, and I believe that BMW is fully aware of that! A charisma that Volkswagen's new Beetle certainly failed to develop to the same degree!
So, it would be perfectly normal for the new MINI to go through certain minor aesthetic changes. As a matter of fact it's evolutionary changes have already started with the 2005 version. A facelift so mild in fact, that for most people (non-MINI enthusiasts) it is hard to tell a 2005 MINI from the previous ones!
One of the reasons why I bought a MINI (other than being absolutely crazy about it), is precisely because I believe that it is a car that won't go thru the kind of radical (and often innecessary) facelifts that most other cars go thru! It will keep looking fashionable longer than most cars, including BMWs for that matter.
So, I feel quite serene about this whole subject. I sincerely doubt that there will be any radical aesthetic changes for as long as the new MINI keeps sparking people's enthusiasm! The new MINI is already a modern classic and we've had the wonderfull opportunity to witness it's birth and enjoy it's existence!

[LagunaSol]

I say bring on the change! Make it bigger, plusher, add a couple extra doors, heck, make it an SUV. Make it edgy, like a piece of rolling origami. Like everything else on the road is going now. Go nuts BMW. Why? Because then I can stay content with my '05 (which hasn't even been delivered yet BTW) for years and years and not have to upgrade. Like my '94 Miata; it's still my favorite Miata design. The later revisions were a bit of a turn off for me, hence no need for an expensive upgrade. Or like the Z3 to Z4 redesign; if I had a Z3 I'd be holding it tightly, glad I got the car before Bangle destroyed it. Making radical changes to the MINI is good for my bank account.

I can only hope to have my MINI for 10+ years and love the design as much the 10th year as I do the 1st. So yes indeed people, change is good!

[ImaVunDerBrah]

A virtual petition? Are you joking? MINI owners are the only people who have the audacity to think that complaints and petitions will make a difference. I'm apprehensive about the potential changes. I LOVE my MINI just as it is. All that aside, why would a car company rethink their whole strategy just because a couple hundred or thousand MINI owners love their cars just as they are? Theres a distinct difference between petitioning to bring already existant parts over to the States and asking them to not change the car design. Foolish.

As far as changes every 4-5 years... its the way of the world. Its to be expected. Cars don't just stay the same for eternity. It just doesn't happen.

[stephenjc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

If they don't evolve the new MINI, it will end up like the new Beetle, and come to an end all too soon.......

I too question if that statement is necesssarily true although I understand why the statement is made and the concerns it points out which are legitimate to raise. The VW Bug and the MINI have been compared due to the uniqueness of each but they are very different cars. I think BMW did a better job in recreating the MINI than VW did with recreating the bug. An analogy that comes to mind for me although certainly not a perfect analogy would be to follow the birth and evolution of the chevy corvette and the Ford T-bird. The 'vette changed very slowly and very little and stayed with the original concept throughout for now over 40 some years. The t-bird changed dramatically and it died. I think it comes down to how the car makers viewed the place of each in the marketplace and how satisfied they were with where they fit in. Obviously chevy was okay with the 'vette's limited market whereas ford tried to broaden the t-bird's market and in the process destroyed it. Now in looking at the bug and the MINI I would say that VW has a few models in the same or very close price point with the bug. They have the Jetta and Golf and perhaps they are not happy with having the Bug as a limited appeal vehicle and they can simply live without having a bug in its lineup. In my opinion the VW bug may have a similar unique styling type appeal as the MINI but to me it does not have the sports appeal that the MINI has. Also BMW does not really have competing cars in their lineup with the MINI. I can understand the apprehension over the possible changes in the MINI. If BMW were to take the Ford approach of trying to broaden the appeal of the MINI it could risk destroying the original concept which all of us are happy with. I suspect that such is not the case. BMW is definitely not Chevy or Ford and is not a mass appeal company so hopefully the changes will not be drastic. the 3, 5 and 7 series BMWs have stayed essentially similar for quite a few years now. As far as I can tell those cars have evolved slowly and stayed in the same concepts for a long time. I would guess that the same will be true of the MINI. I would also say that those that have owned a VW bug are not necessarily replacing their bug with another Bug. On the other hand I see a lot of MINI owners that seem committed to buying more MINIs.

Sorry I think what I have wriiten here is not entirley cohesive but bottom line is that I just think that the VW bug has not found a proper and necessary spot in the VW lineup and I just don't see the MINI as having the same problems so I do not see their ultimate fates as being the same either.

I agree with dansmini and DeadCanDanceR. The MINI is much less a "fad vehicle" than the bug and the PT Cruiser, and those vehicles were produced by more mass appeal companies and so once the Fad of those vehicles became popular the fad no longer was a fad and they then had nowhere to go with it. The MINI
is more than a fad and is by a not so mass appeal company that I can see being more satisfied with a limited appeal. I also think that the MINI is more suited for subtle changes than those fad cars.