[Perm]

Hi,

Can someone explain in a non technical way how BMW only manage to get 190 (ish) BHP from MINI Cooper S Turbo, whilst GTT can get 280 – 300 BHP ?

I know that engines are different, but they are both 1.6 litre units…… is there something fundamentally different about the two engines ?

What makes the GTT’s conversion so much more powerful than the BMW version ???? What does the BMW Turboed engine do wrong ?????


Thanks

Perm

[roland2003]

Hi Perm, BMW havnt done anything wrong. There are many reasons why BMW Mini R56 Turbo is only 190bhp. ..Cost, turbo sizing, head & cam, turbo manifold design,boost , and probably the need to hold back to enable a higher output version to be released later. The R56 turbo is very very small. IMO even too small for what I believe they wanted to achieve. The turbo unit in the GTT300T is rated at 360bhp by Garrett. The GTT intercooler/ cylinder head/manifolds we designed and use ,mean 400bhp is possible from our GTT300T 'base' . Bigger turbos (everthing else being specced accordingly) will produce more power but sacrifice low end and induce more lag. The R56 turbo I would hazard a guess that about 220bhp is the max it will produce. The plus side of the R56 is has splendid low down torque, the downside is it runs out of puff easily. The GTT300T realy is spot on for road & track, or if you want even more low end bias ..the forthcoming 280Tqs.

[Perm]

Roland,
Thanks for the reply….. like others….. I have put on hold any plans of buying a R56 turbo until I see what the costs of the 280T comes in at…….

[ One additional question….. would the 280T conversion work well with an automatic gear box MCS ]

Thanks

Perm

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

and probably the need to hold back to enable a higher output version to be released later.

Over a year after launch and there still hasn't been a significant increase in power available on the '56 turbo Do you think that there might be a significant limitation in the basic engine or gearbox design that makes it unviable to increase its standard power output significantly?

[roland2003]

Yes.

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

Over a year after launch and there still hasn't been a significant increase in power available on the '56 turbo Do you think that there might be a significant limitation in the basic engine or gearbox design that makes it unviable to increase its standard power output significantly?

Probably why the factory Works will have a larger turbo

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Yes.

That was said with feeling

[Japper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

Over a year after launch and there still hasn't been a significant increase in power available on the '56 turbo Do you think that there might be a significant limitation in the basic engine or gearbox design that makes it unviable to increase its standard power output significantly?

You're not looking in the right places then

There is a company out there with aftermarket parts producing proven gains of around 60hp. In addition a replacement turbo package available early next year producing around 300hp.

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Japper (original)

You're not looking in the right places then

There is a company out there with aftermarket parts producing proven gains of around 60hp. In addition a replacement turbo package available early next year producing around 300hp.

I've yet to find them. Can you provide a link?

Also, from what I have read, the engine's standard torque output is pretty near the maximum specified load of the standard gearbox. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

Tigger.

[Richard Crofts]

With a turbo car your only cheap power replacements are manifold, exhaust, intake. Once you have done them maps and head work are the only other things really.... then your onto increased size turbos.

Tuning the R56 is difficult as the stock turbo is pretty weedy so your pretty limited IMO. The best option save some wonga and buy a bigger turbo. probably the simplest way forward as the engine is reasonably strong i would think...just the actual turbo thats the major limiting factor.

[Japper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

I've yet to find them. Can you provide a link?

Also, from what I have read, the engine's standard torque output is pretty near the maximum specified load of the standard gearbox. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

Tigger.

You have PM

[Snowie]

I think the big question with the R 56 is - will the bottom end take the strain of the additional power ???

Inside sources indicate a few failures at high power figures - some say the limit of the bottom end is circa 220 BHP

Motorsport guys are questioning the potential longevity of the new R 56 race car. How many R 53 race cars have had engine failure - not many and those that have failed have mainly been due to cat failure (caused by the flexi breaking up and blocking the cat) causing cylinder overheating and piston failure inside a couple of laps.

The Tritec motor has a very strong bottom end.

[Ant FR]

just to add to this, Peugeot Sport ( the racing arm of Peugeot) have been producing 270 bhp with this unit for nearly 2 yrs now, however it runs at such stupidly high temperatures i think they are not using it any more and are reverting to entering the Pug 207 into Super2000 spec running the more reliable 2 litre engine.

[roland2003]

Interesting info ,thanks . This is one reason we have sold our R56,so we can concentrate on MORE R53 products. We will hold out until the higher power factory MCS turbo comes out and have another look at that.

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

Interesting info ,thanks . This is one reason we have sold our R56,so we can concentrate on MORE R53 products. We will hold out until the higher power factory MCS turbo comes out and have another look at that.

So what do you believe the limitations of the R56 are, that make it unsuitable for GTT to tune it ?.

[roland2003]

Its certainly tunable , but until someone trys 400bhp through it ,it's unproven though. I think for the forseeable future R53 is the one to use for big power.