[murphymok]

Hi all,

I was reading a thread on how to change aftermarket seats in a MCS. The airbag sensors are connected to the factory seats. Will changing aftermarket seats affect the airbags functions?

Thanks

[NEMINI]

changing seats means you lose the airbags that are present in the factory seats. The airbag system will beleive 2 airbags are not working since they are missing.

[LuckyRVA]

GMINI,I thought that if you removed a seat, none of the airbags would then work?!

I do know that there is some sort of plug made to make the "computer" think there is a stock seat still there so the other airbags will deploy in the event of a crash.



-Jason

[nulltty]

From what I was told, they're independant, if you have a fault light only the airbag with the fault won't function but the others will. There is a way to trick the sensor so the light doesn't go off, using a resistor.

[punkeyfunky]

Quote: Originally Posted by nulltty

From what I was told, they're independant, if you have a fault light only the airbag with the fault won't function but the others will. There is a way to trick the sensor so the light doesn't go off, using a resistor.

Or, get your dealer to disable the side airbags. Don't believe them when they say it can't be done, it can, as I've had it done to my MINI.

And it's worth it for those lovely comfortable Sparco's...

Lee

[nulltty]

Might be easier to have MINI in UK disable the side (seat) airbag sensor, but over in the US, MINIUSA disavows any knowledge that they can do it (unless they've changed their view in 6 months since I last spoke to them). Local dealer (at least in California) are no help either.

[punkeyfunky]

Quote: Originally Posted by nulltty

Might be easier to have MINI in UK disable the side (seat) airbag sensor, but over in the US, MINIUSA disavows any knowledge that they can do it (unless they've changed their view in 6 months since I last spoke to them). Local dealer (at least in California) are no help either.

Well... I didn't say it was easy

It's technically possible, yes, but convincing a deler of this is always 'fun'. It's taken me since August to get the side airbags disabled, but they eventually did it.

I went over my dealers head to BMW UK, and rocked the boat until I got my own way. Would that approach work for you guys in the USA? Might be worth trying it at any rate - you'll lose nothing more than some time.

Lee

[GDeschodt]

Talked to mini USA the other day:

My question was : is there a release form for airbag disabling, yes or no ? is that your call or the dealer's ? [except I asked nicely]
There are other ways around this problem [stayed vague on resistors] will that affect the warranty on the rest of the car ?

Response:

Sorry to read about your seat concern. Have you spoken with your dealer to see if there are possible adjustments that can be made to your existing seat to make it more comfortable?
[As if... I want sparcos, no adjustment will ever fix those crappy benches]

Unfortunately, we do not recommend the installation of aftermarket parts.
We realize that many MINI owners will be keen to modify their car. Nevertheless, like most other vehicle makers, we cannot officially endorse or recommend modification to the car's engineering. Such action may affect or invalidate the manufacturer's warranty.

If there are further questions, please let me know.

[and no, we don't disable airbags either, thanks for playing]

[Andy@Ross-Tech.com]

Airbags are a trick business. Some auto manufacturers used to disable the passenger side front airbag electronically, but there was a case in Germany where that was done, yet the airbag DID deploy, killing a child in the passenger seat. The explanation is that after electronic disabling, an unrelated fault appeared in the airbag controller. The default mode for thr airbag controller in the presence of fault codes was to fire all torpedos on impact. How this relates to side airbags, I am not sure, but I can see why dealerships are very wary of fulfilling customer requests like that.

FWIW (I take no responsibility for this information), I have watched a pair of 10 Ohm resistors installed in parallel (should be equivalent to one 5 Ohm resistor), installed in a car with aftermarket seats. The Airbag lamp was not lit and there were no fault codes in the airbag controller.

[GDeschodt]

Thanks, but we'r eback to square one on that front.
The most prevalent opinion is a 3.9 ohms resistor will do the trick. Except some have said 2.2, 3.4, 4 and who knows what other value. Until I can tell for certain, I won't do it... the best way would be to measure for myself but my expertise is limited to Volts ;-)

[nulltty]

Yeap that's similar to what they told me months ago when I inquired. However, one of the MINIUSA reps faxed over the airbag deactivation form, but later a senior MINIUSA rep said it shouldn't have been faxed to me and that it was up to the dealer to assist and not MINIUSA to determine which dealer will/can perform the job. I also asked if they could tell me the resistor value and they wouldn't share that info. The local dealers (a) wouldn't help or (b) didn't know anything about it or how to do it through the computer or (c) would attempt to reset the airbag light if I did a loopback (resistor) myself but made no guarantees if reseting would keep the light off. Mind you, I was determined to get the seats in if that meant the light would be on forever, the seats were already in before I found out MINIUSA/dealer wouldn't disable the sensor through the computer (even though there are other owners in the US who said their dealer were able to help). I went as far as getting a NHTSA release form.

I know there's a couple of OHM resistor values floating around that people have tried and worked, I don't think you need to nail it down to a specific OHM. If a bunch of people have used one OHM or another and hasn't had their srs light on, then it's done its job of fooling the computer. If you are still nervous , then wait to see if the JCW seats are approved for the USA. Then find out if those seats have seat airbags or not (conflicting rumors that they do have airbags vs they don't have airbags).

On a different note, your email response from them said they don't endorse installation of aftermarket parts. You'd think if the overall company doesn't endorse aftermarket parts, then they would prohibt their dealerships from selling aftermarket parts... One of my local dealerships sells non-MINI parts in their showroom. Go figure. Then again MINIUSA is covering their butts in case of lawsuit, which is why they're reluctant to help when it comes to Airbags and safety.

Some airbag links from my research early this year:
http://www.elkeinland.com/airbag.htm
http://list.miata.net/miata/2000-05/480.html
http://www.airbagsystems.com/

Quote: Originally Posted by GDeschodt

Talked to mini USA the other day:

My question was : is there a release form for airbag disabling, yes or no ? is that your call or the dealer's ? [except I asked nicely]
There are other ways around this problem [stayed vague on resistors] will that affect the warranty on the rest of the car ?

Response:

Sorry to read about your seat concern. Have you spoken with your dealer to see if there are possible adjustments that can be made to your existing seat to make it more comfortable?
[As if... I want sparcos, no adjustment will ever fix those crappy benches]

Unfortunately, we do not recommend the installation of aftermarket parts.
We realize that many MINI owners will be keen to modify their car. Nevertheless, like most other vehicle makers, we cannot officially endorse or recommend modification to the car's engineering. Such action may affect or invalidate the manufacturer's warranty.

If there are further questions, please let me know.

[and no, we don't disable airbags either, thanks for playing]

[LMB]

The JCW seats don't come with airbags and they're basically just recoved sparcos. Maybe you could use that angle? BecauseTo fit them they're going to have to disable the side airbags.

[GDeschodt]

Thanks guys, good info...

the only thing that is making it Ok right now for me is that I have a sizeable and unexpected property tax increase to pay ;-) I cannot afford the sparco swap right this minute, or I'd be ****ed at Mini Usa. I figure by the time I am ready, the JCW seats will have come out with their "factory" resistor loop and we'll know for sure. I am definitely getting Torinos as soon as I can afford them though, milanos are too expensive for my tastes... Meantime I shaved the lumbar support and disconnected the wiring inside the seat back that holds the foam so tight at the bottom. Still sucks but it's better...

One day I will get those sparcos !!! all I need is someone with less patience than me around here who will do the resistor trick and have it fresh in his mind !

[stryder]

I'm confused why the resistor trick is in question. Can't you just plug an Ohmeter (which are really easy to find as part of a Multimeter) into the seat side of the airbag plug and see what the resistance is? Take that resistance and plug it into the car side of the plug.

Or am I over-simplifying? Its not more complicated then reading volts, simplier in fact, since you don't even need to worry about + and -. In theory of course, I may be wrong.

[Andy@Ross-Tech.com]

Quote: Originally Posted by stryder

I'm confused why the resistor trick is in question. Can't you just plug an Ohmeter (which are really easy to find as part of a Multimeter) into the seat side of the airbag plug and see what the resistance is? Take that resistance and plug it into the car side of the plug.

Or am I over-simplifying? Its not more complicated then reading volts, simplier in fact, since you don't even need to worry about + and -. In theory of course, I may be wrong.

NO!!!! DO NOT SEND CURRENT THROUGH YOUR AIRBAGS! That is how they deploy. When you use an Ohm meter, you are sending a current through the circuit to see what the voltage drop is, hence the resistance. DO NOT DO THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

[stryder]

Knew I had to be missing something. Thanks for clearing that up

So would it be possible with a set of junkyard seats? or would they blow as soon as you tried to get a reading and cause an open circuit? Or has no one tried because OEM seats are so expensive?

[punkeyfunky]

Quote: Originally Posted by Andy@Ross-Tech.com

NO!!!! DO NOT SEND CURRENT THROUGH YOUR AIRBAGS! That is how they deploy. When you use an Ohm meter, you are sending a current through the circuit to see what the voltage drop is, hence the resistance. DO NOT DO THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Er, that raises a question. How does the ECU measure the resistance then;, in order to know when one is missing, without putting a current across the circuit?

Lee

[Andy@Ross-Tech.com]

Quote: Originally Posted by punkeyfunky

Er, that raises a question. How does the ECU measure the resistance then;, in order to know when one is missing, without putting a current across the circuit?

Lee

The Airbag controller knows what current to use to check the resistance, whereas the Ohm meter does not.

Seriously, don't mess with airbags.

[syntrix]

Agreed! I have perma-black eye from playing with airbags when I was younger and stupider.