[O2OnFire]

Just thought I'd let you guys know about my experience upgrading my HK stereo...

I realize the Harmon/Kardon stereo left something to be desired for many audio enthusiasts, myself included, but upgrading it was often such a chore. It was an all-or-nothing affair for many, since the head unit and amplifiers had to "talk" to each other, and bypassing the amp with your head unit's speaker outputs was complicated by crossover issues.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the HK system, but wanted a few more features/options, and wanted a slightly louder, cleaner system.

As many of you know, GBMini developed an "HK Enabler" that's for sale on newministuff.com. It's the only way to get an aftermarket head unit to work with the HK amp. (Details here... ) I purchased an aftermarket Alpine CDA-9833 head unit because it has the ability to apply crossovers to each independent output channel. With the HK enabler and the head unit together, I am able to send the sound signal to the HK amplifier WITHOUT low frequencies, hence limiting distortion caused from excessive bass. This way, I am also able to maintain the amp-speaker combo that's specifically designed for the Cooper's cabin, and the result is quite impressive.

Because the HK Enabler sends its signal at almost-full volume (and you use the aftermarket head unit to maintain actual volume output), there is a very slight hiss in the speakers when output is at very low volumes. It cannot be heard over road noise, so those of you interested shouldn't be discouraged by this, but if your goal is absolute crystal clarity for Sound Quality competition and you're used to the "zero bit mute," you may need to follow your gut instinct to build the system fromt the ground up.

Overall, the sound quality is improved over stock, especially with the head unit's strong sound features.

SPL output has increased significantly with the crossovers at work, without added distortion. Without the crossovers on, however, spl is similar to stock up to clipping.

If you all are wondering how I can stand my music with the bass cut out--I have also added a 10" JL Audio W6v2 with an Alpine amp powering it. This sub was added to the stock HK system with a line-level converter, and was far from impressive. However, with the addition of the aftermarket stereo with dedicated subwoofer preouts, the SQ and SPL of the subwoofer are now absolutely remarkable. The head unit has an independent subwoofer control, so the output can be adjusted as desired. The 4 volt preouts clean up the sound compared to the line-level converter. And most importantly, the dedicated preouts supply a full range of sound all the way down to inaudible frequencies, which was impossible splicing the converter into one of the rear channels--frequencies below about 40Hz dropped off significantly. "Sloppy" was the best way to describe the sound when using a line level converter, but now the w6 can prove it's real shining point--flat, clear, tight sound quality and booming sound pressure levels.

I encourage those of you that want to squeeze every ounce from the HK system, or just want a new head unit with more control and features, pick up the HK enabler. It provides the same impressive sound as a $700 amplifier/speaker upgrade for much, much less. Your friends will have a hard time believing the amp and speakers are from the factory.

Any questions or comments, please leave 'em.

[GBMINI]

Sounds fabulous - pleased you got it all working so well

[Mike Edwards]

I'm guessing that the differences are only audible while stationary with the engine off?

Or am I missing the point when it comes to trying to optimise sound reproduction in a noisy metal box?

[O2OnFire]

You've got it. So unless you spend a great deal of your time draining your battery in your garage, you don't compromise a thing.

[stephenjc]

Do you know from your experience if there is any way to simply increase the volume/power/amplification on the HK without changing the head unit? My only problem with the HK is the lack of volume ( I have already been crticized for this repeatedly so for those of you that think I am nuts, I have already heard it).

So can an amp be substitutde or bridged that you know of? So far I think I am finding that this is not possible.

[GBMINI]

I guess you have heard these answers before. But ...
#1 make sure the bass & treble are *NOT* turned above "normal"; they reduce max volume
#2 try all the different modes; some are louder than others

Other than that, what is your source?
Radio stations will typically be about as loud as can be achieved - unless you listen to classical music stations.
Many CDs are not recorded to their maximum, and this will directly reduce the maximum volume you can get out of the system.
If you record your own CDs, be sure to use something like MP3GAIN to balance the sound level to a high but not distorted level, to maximize the overall volume.

Are all your speakers working? Check left/right balance and front/rear fade to listen to all the speakers one by one.

[stephenjc]

Quote: Originally Posted by GBMINI

I guess you have heard these answers before. But ...
#1 make sure the bass & treble are *NOT* turned above "normal"; they reduce max volume
#2 try all the different modes; some are louder than others

Other than that, what is your source?
Radio stations will typically be about as loud as can be achieved - unless you listen to classical music stations.
Many CDs are not recorded to their maximum, and this will directly reduce the maximum volume you can get out of the system.
If you record your own CDs, be sure to use something like MP3GAIN to balance the sound level to a high but not distorted level, to maximize the overall volume.

Are all your speakers working? Check left/right balance and front/rear fade to listen to all the speakers one by one.

Well yes been told all of that, most of which I knew already with the treble/bass tips as the exception but I do appreciate the kind effort to help. I guess I am just strange in wanting more volume although I have seen others post the same desire.

[O2OnFire]

Originally, I got more volume by turning the bass all the way down, and added an aftermarket subwoofer. This reduces distortion and allows a higher output.

Besides what's mentioned, I don't think there are any "tweaks" to get more ouput from the hk amp. I'm not sure what voltage the stock battery provides, but an aftermarket dry cell "red top" or "yellow top" produce 14.4 volts, while many other types provide 12-13.8. Higher voltage=higher output. Worth a thought...

BTW as far as the differences only being noticable with the engine off, I may have misunderstood. I meant that the audible hiss was only heard in that state. Overall, the increases in SPL and SQ are noticeable at any speed. With the stock HK system, I struggled to really hear music/lyrics at above 70mph with the windows down. But now, with the new setup, this is not a problem.

[Mike Edwards]

How's the tinnitus going with the new set-up?

I said HOW'S THE TINNITUS???

[stephenjc]

It never ceases to amaze me how some can't accept that others may have different preferences and sensibilities. In almost every thread I have read that involves a personal preference whether its for a color, stripe, wheel, audio system, modification or the like, there is nearly every time at least one who has to post how the choice being made or considered is wrong, bad or ridiculous. Now many times its just in jest as with the tinnitus post which is fine, but some are serious. Opinion is okay as in "I like" or "I prefer" or "have you considered" but those that suggest that someone's preference is wrong, bad, or ridiculous - well I just don't understand that.

Audio is like taste. Just as some people prefers the tastes of some foods over others and some are more sensitive to sweets or bitters or spices it is similar with audio and some just hear things differently and therefore have different preferences. Sounds to me like O2OnFire is more sensitive to hiss and distortion than others and is also more demanding with audio than many others and may very well have a more developed audio sense like expert wine tasters have more develpoed tastebuds. So why question?

[djtex]

Quote: Originally Posted by stephenjc

It never ceases to amaze me how some can't accept that others may have different preferences and sensibilities. In almost every thread I have read that involves a personal preference whether its for a color, stripe, wheel, audio system, modification or the like, there is nearly every time at least one who has to post how the choice being made or considered is wrong, bad or ridiculous. Now many times its just in jest as with the tinnitus post which is fine, but some are serious. Opinion is okay as in "I like" or "I prefer" or "have you considered" but those that suggest that someone's preference is wrong, bad, or ridiculous - well I just don't understand that.

Audio is like taste. Just as some people prefers the tastes of some foods over others and some are more sensitive to sweets or bitters or spices it is similar with audio and some just hear things differently and therefore have different preferences. Sounds to me like O2OnFire is more sensitive to hiss and distortion than others and is also more demanding with audio than many others and may very well have a more developed audio sense like expert wine tasters have more develpoed tastebuds. So why question?

It's not just questioning or criticising, but is a matter of taste. This is a messageboard where people post their views and opinions, wgy should we all be nodding dogs and like everything? I am only allowed to post replies to things I like or agree with? I think not.

Stop making a fuss about nothing.

[stephenjc]

Quote: Originally Posted by djtex

It's not just questioning or criticising, but is a matter of taste. This is a messageboard where people post their views and opinions, wgy should we all be nodding dogs and like everything? I am only allowed to post replies to things I like or agree with? I think not.

Stop making a fuss about nothing.

I guess you didn't read what I wrote.

[djtex]

Quote: Originally Posted by stephenjc

I guess you didn't read what I wrote.

I did read what you wrote, but you are saying why question something that is different to your own taste. It seems to me you are missing the entire point of what discussion is all about.

What a boring world it would be if we all thought the same, or rather kept everything to ourselves so as not to offend someone else.

I for one will continue to ask people why they are doing something if I don't agree with it. I don't see the harm!!

[stephenjc]

Quote: Originally Posted by djtex

I did read what you wrote, but you are saying why question something that is different to your own taste. It seems to me you are missing the entire point of what discussion is all about.

What a boring world it would be if we all thought the same, or rather kept everything to ourselves so as not to offend someone else.

I for one will continue to ask people why they are doing something if I don't agree with it. I don't see the harm!!

If you read what I wrote you would have seen "Opinion is okay as in "I like" or "I prefer" or "have you considered" and you would not respond with "This is a messageboard where people post their views and opinions, wgy should we all be nodding dogs and like everything?" I certainly nowhere in my post suggested that anyone be a nodding dog and like everything. In fact I welcome opinion which is precisely what I wrote. I simply expressed my opinion and dismay for some posts. Are you suggesting that the only way to express an opinion is through ridicule and non-constructive crticism? I did not even so much as suggest that people should have no right or should be foreclosed from expressing the very posts I dislike If so perhaps i would have said "don't question" instead of rhetorically said "why question".

Also perhaps you would have absorbed that the point I was trying to make is when it comes to matters of personal preference, opinion and/or constructive criticism is good - intentional non-humorous ridicule and non-constructive criticism is not (in my opinion).

And while you have expressed your opinion that I should let all such posts that I disfavor go without my comment - you suggest that I should keep my opinion to myself by saying "Stop making a fuss about nothing." So are you now saying exactly what you are incorrectly suggesting that I am saying ? It sounds to me like you are telling me not to express my opinion. I see a consistency problem there. Just my opinion.

[djtex]

Yes very clever! You got me, partially!

I just didn't see the point of your post in the first place.

[stephenjc]

Quote: Originally Posted by djtex

Yes very clever! You got me, partially!

I just didn't see the point of your post in the first place.

And I should have not responded so abruptly the first time. I apologize. I hope I clarified. If not, I'll try again. Simply put, there is mean spirited and there is kind spirited. For some reason, particularly when it comes to audio, I have seen too many posts that are less constructive and less kind. So its not opinion I don't like its any expression (again when it comes to matters of personal preference like color, stripes, audio, or the like) of criticism of the person for having a particuar preference that I don't understand. For example to say that i prefer Electric Blue over Chili Red is okay but to say you are an idiot for prefering CR - that's what I don't understand. In this thread in particular, to say I prefer the totally stock HK is fine but to ridicule in an unkind way someone who prefers something else - again that is what I don't understand. Now done in a humorous way for humor's sake its fine. But sometimes in e-mails and posts the problem is its not always clear when someone is just being humorous or is being mean spirited. In print, intentions are very easily misinterpreted. I guess that is why we have those smiley faces to use. i don't think anything here in this thread was entirely meant in an unkind way but I am not sure. In another thread, when I suggested that I was not entirely satisfied with the volume - output of the HK, I had a few posts that didn't just express that they were satisfied with the HK or even ask me why I had a different preference but they also came just shy of telling me that I was completely out of my mind for not being as satisfied as they are. So when I saw something that seemed similar here, although much more mild, I guess I had to vent. Its not limited to audio I have seen other similar posts in response to others in other topics and i never understand it. For some reason though it seems more prevalant in my limited experience when it comes to audio. Why is that? So i also attempted to explain why someone's audio preference may be different.

Thanks for your last post - that was nice of you.

[djtex]

Quote: Originally Posted by stephenjc

And I should have not responded so abruptly the first time. I apologize. I hope I clarified. If not, I'll try again. Simply put, there is mean spirited and there is kind spirited. For some reason, particularly when it comes to audio, I have seen too many posts that are less constructive and less kind. So its not opinion I don't like its any expression (again when it comes to matters of personal preference like color, stripes, audio, or the like) of criticism of the person for having a particuar preference that I don't understand. For example to say that i prefer Electric Blue over Chili Red is okay but to say you are an idiot for prefering CR - that's what I don't understand. In this thread in particular, to say I prefer the totally stock HK is fine but to ridicule in an unkind way someone who prefers something else - again that is what I don't understand. Now done in a humorous way for humor's sake its fine. But sometimes in e-mails and posts the problem is its not always clear when someone is just being humorous or is being mean spirited. In print, intentions are very easily misinterpreted. I guess that is why we have those smiley faces to use. i don't think anything here in this thread was entirely meant in an unkind way but I am not sure. In another thread, when I suggested that I was not entirely satisfied with the volume - output of the HK, I had a few posts that didn't just express that they were satisfied with the HK or even ask me why I had a different preference but they also came just shy of telling me that I was completely out of my mind for not being as satisfied as they are. So when I saw something that seemed similar here, although much more mild, I guess I had to vent. Its not limited to audio I have seen other similar posts in response to others in other topics and i never understand it. For some reason though it seems more prevalant in my limited experience when it comes to audio. Why is that? So i also attempted to explain why someone's audio preference may be different.

Thanks for your last post - that was nice of you.

Hear, hear, well said! I think you have said it all!

Ooops, I should have let you have the last word.

Nice to meet you by the way!

[GBMINI]

Anyway, about the Harman Kardon system and how to improve it ...

[stephenjc]

Quote: Originally Posted by GBMINI

Anyway, about the Harman Kardon system and how to improve it ...

Wow, that is a lot of work as you say on that page.

[stephenjc]

Quote: Originally Posted by djtex

Hear, hear, well said! I think you have said it all!

Ooops, I should have let you have the last word.

Nice to meet you by the way!

I know i sometimes say it all a little too much. Hopefully I did it better this time though.

Nice to meet you too.

Please post one more response so i don't look too egomaniacal - please get in the last word.