[Tonyt3]

Decembers edition of the well repected EVO magazine just arrived with me this morming. On page 53, they test drive the new Works S conversion (210bhp).

Starting with the statement that the writer thinks hes just a bit mad travelling four hours to test drive such a small change to the car, questioning weather it can possibly be justified.....

but, 10 minutes after swapping his own Works S for the new one, quote "its clear theres far more to this car than a spec sheet reprint - shame on me".....


"you notice the engine improvements immediatly, throttle response is cleaner and more decisive,...... pulling harder earlier". " The engine note is sweeter too: "

"Overall the New Works S is a fine car.... if the end result wasn't so complete, dependable and entertaining it wouldn't be so tempting" (tested car was £28,000 with all extras!!!)

Pluses: Keener throtle response, top end kick
Minuses: Not exactly cheap

Plenty more to read on this full page article, including news about the suspension upgrades.... go buy EVO and see for yourself...

[scooperman_uk]

any improvement in the gas gussling?

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by scooperman_uk

any improvement in the gas gussling?

not mentioned.... unlikely though...

[dgszweda]

The reviews of the 210bhp upgrade are great, but I would like to see a review of an '05 with the 210bhp kit. This should even be better than an '04 with the upgrade. Since the '05 has better gearing, and there is already a noticeable difference attributed to this on the base cars. With the extra horsepower it should be even greater.

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by dgszweda

The reviews of the 210bhp upgrade are great, but I would like to see a review of an '05 with the 210bhp kit. This should even be better than an '04 with the upgrade. Since the '05 has better gearing, and there is already a noticeable difference attributed to this on the base cars. With the extra horsepower it should be even greater.

The review is the 05 car.......

Personally, I don't think the gearing change has been significant. My car has the upgrade, and felt much more lively...

[dgszweda]

Thanks. I will need to go out and buy my December issue of EVO now.

[Fizzle]

wheres my evo?

had a subscription for years and lately its been out in the shops before its been on my doorstep??

I drove the 2005 JCW car around an autocross track for about 30 minutes or so. I really wasn't that impressed. My modified 2003 S is much much faster. The techs from MINI Germany couldn't answer my questions about what type of LSD they were going to offer, or even who was going to make it. On top of that they are charging a ridiculous price for their new air box and springs. I love the MINI, but I am increasingly upset with how they price things. Now that the major aftermarket companies are offering solid warranties, I don't see why to go with JCW. Of course this is just my viewpoint. If someone only wants factory supported parts I get the thinking, however I really don't see this group of people as being the most performance savy of the MINI owners/buyers.

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by robertbrite

I drove the 2005 JCW car around an autocross track for about 30 minutes or so. I really wasn't that impressed. My modified 2003 S is much much faster. The techs from MINI Germany couldn't answer my questions about what type of LSD they were going to offer, or even who was going to make it. On top of that they are charging a ridiculous price for their new air box and springs. I love the MINI, but I am increasingly upset with how they price things. Now that the major aftermarket companies are offering solid warranties, I don't see why to go with JCW. Of course this is just my viewpoint. If someone only wants factory supported parts I get the thinking, however I really don't see this group of people as being the most performance savy of the MINI owners/buyers.

Its not all about performance Robert, your view is too narrow. There are other reasons for sticking with JCW, not least the fact that in this country at least, if you stick with JCW your car will be much more valueable in the future. People who don't stick with JCW always argue this as a mute point, however, anyone thats visited JCW garage in Worthing will be able to show you genuine JCG classis Mini Coopers that are selling for more than twice the price that they were new.

Its easy to make a car go faster. You don't need JCW parts. But it also makes a car depreciate faster than anything else by strapping on non approved products. I am not saying that these products are not just as good or better, but if you try to trade in a car at a BMW dealership thats dripping in non approved tuning products, they will politetly point out that they only sell BMW approved used cars. No deal then.

So you see, your comment "however I really don't see this group of people as being the most performance savy of the MINI owners/buyers", is actually probably the most limiting statement you could make. Whats it to be? 210 bhp on a car thats worthhalf what yuou paid for it, or 210bhp on a car that could in the future be worth the same as what you paid for it?

[Jones]

Here here...par example...I had my car valued the other day at BMW and they themselves would give me £24,000 and said I could sell it quite easily for £25,995.

This is after paying £25,000 for the car itself and then spending cash on the wheels and upgrade. So after over a year and 10,000 miles I would lose maybe £1000....would have been much more had the mods been non JCW!

Jones!

[dgszweda]

I agree. The JCW is not just about pure performance numbers. If I wanted pure numbers I would throw on a 20% pulley with NOS. The JCW kit is about the whole package. And I agree, resale has a lot to do with it. I am actually happy that a lot of people are not buying the package, it will just make those that have one, be more valuable. Once you start throwing on aftermarket parts, the price starts falling.

[SJS]

IT not just jcw which has warranty + after sales price other bmw products i.e hartge do the same

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by SJS

IT not just jcw which has warranty + after sales price other bmw products i.e hartge do the same

Most (although admittedly not every) BMW garage won't part exchange a Hartge Mini. Fine conversion, however, as a Hartge conversion is so relatively cheap, would you pay more for a second hand Hartge Mini? - If so, why?

[Bisch]

I don't understand why JCW does not just offer a pulley exchange as part of the "kit". Why replace the entire SC? The SC's are identical. That would save a good deal of $$$ to the consumer....and they would most likely sell more kits.

[Burti]

B , i have been into every newsagent, shop, supermarket and i cannot find a copy of Evo anywhere

Why is it that Gatwick or Heathrow airport has the best selection of magazines ??? I cant find 'GoMini anywhere roudn here either so i had to subscribe to it or take a trip to Gatiwck !!

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bisch

I don't understand why JCW does not just offer a pulley exchange as part of the "kit". Why replace the entire SC? The SC's are identical. That would save a good deal of $$$ to the consumer....and they would most likely sell more kits.

Yes, this is an unashamed rip off..... they quote some weak excuse about not trusting BMW technicians to do a proper job world wide, but at the end of the day, its virtually theft. They had an argument when it was a different generation Supercharger, but now its the same, its a simple rip off. Nothing more, nothing less.

When you have something like this however, its actually a policy to protect the integrity of the kudos of the kit, by keeping it prohibitivly expensive.... many companies do this. Ferrari could produce a very reasonable sports car, for a quarter of the price that they currently do, and they could sell many more (wouldn't you want a cheap, simple sportscar with a Ferrari badge for £25,000? - perhaps you would, but then if every other car on the street was one, would you want it then?) They choose not to 'water down' the kudos of their brand by doing this however....

You want a JCW's? Certainly sir. It'll cost you though..... and one of the reasons that it will cost you... is that there will always be someone who wants to buy it off you once you've finished with it... providing you look after it...

[Fabio]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jones

Here here...par example...I had my car valued the other day at BMW and they themselves would give me £24,000 and said I could sell it quite easily for £25,995.

Jones!

Is there a difference in trade in value with a MCS that has had works fitted from 0 miles or one that has had the kit fitted at 9000 miles?????

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fabio

Is there a difference in trade in value with a MCS that has had works fitted from 0 miles or one that has had the kit fitted at 9000 miles?????

I honestly don't know, but I can't see why there should be... no Works car is factory fitted after all, they are all retro fitted kits, and are the same. So why should anyone even need to know? I don't think it would even occur to me to ask....


i supose you could argue that a car thats had a new supercharger, cylinder head and exhaust after 9000 miles has newer, and therefore less used, parts..... but I don't think anyone would think of it like that.

[Fabio]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tony*t3

I honestly don't know, but I can't see why there should be... no Works car is factory fitted after all, they are all retro fitted kits, and are the same. So why should anyone even need to know? I don't think it would even occur to me to ask....


i supose you could argue that a car thats had a new supercharger, cylinder head and exhaust after 9000 miles has newer, and therefore less used, parts..... but I don't think anyone would think of it like that.

I actually thought that a MCS with works fitted from new would be worth more because the orignal value of the car is more.If it costs 40000 Euros with the works from new and somebody asks you how much you paid for it, you will say 40000 but if you paid 34000 Euros for the car then a year later get the works and somebody asks you how much did you pay for the car you would still say 34000, not 40000. Just my opinion

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fabio

I actually thought that a MCS with works fitted from new would be worth more because the orignal value of the car is more.If it costs 40000 Euros with the works from new and somebody asks you how much you paid for it, you will say 40000 but if you paid 34000 Euros for the car then a year later get the works and somebody asks you how much did you pay for the car you would still say 34000, not 40000. Just my opinion

Can't quite make out the logic there mate... my car cost £17300 new (as an S) and I spent £3500 to make it a Works.... If someone asked me how much my Works cost, I'd tell them £21000. I wouldn't hide the fact that the car was retro fitted with the Works kit, but I don't think anyone would deny that to have my car the value that you would consider the starting place of working out its current value is (cost of new car) + (cost of additionalfitted equipment) - (depriciation).

Your argument would be like 'how much did your house cost new?' £100,000... oh, I spent £50,000 on an extension, but thats irrelevant because I wouldn't expect you to want that.

The car is a Works. Not an S with a kit.