MINI2

minicooperboyuk · Apr 18th, 2008, 02:26 PM

Hi all,

I had slightly more than hairline scratches on my passenger door, and enquired about it at a local independent body repairer near to me. They suggested a sand polish, whereby they use sand paper that is finer than toilet paper (so they guy said anyway) and sand the lacquer and top coat of paint off so the scratches are smoothed out, then they buff it up again with polish. I asked him if the lacquer is removed wont it make the door panel look dull after time, he reassured me no. I am just getting a little worried now that it might. Dont get me wrong, the results look as good as new, but the work was only carried out this morning, just 6months down the line will it still look as good?

The reason I went for this treatment instead of a spray is because this only cost £20 compared to £150+ for a re-spray.

Has anyone else had this done, and what are the results after time? Do I have reason to doubt his reassurance?

Thanx

Hartge210 · Apr 18th, 2008, 03:32 PM

Should be ok

I've heard it called 'wet sanding' before. On www.detailngworld.co.uk a guy called Paul Dalton did the same same thing to a Bugatti Veryon

fordcymru · Apr 18th, 2008, 06:05 PM

Flatting out minor scratches is ok provided you don`t rub through the laquer coat. If the laquer coat is rubbed through there will be a patch that shows a slightly different shade. Any good refinishing technician could carry out a ( flat & polish ) with no problem.

minicooperboyuk · Apr 19th, 2008, 01:36 PM

Well don’t hold me to it fordcymru, but I am sure he rubbed through the lacquer to get to the scratches that were in the paint work, then obviously lightly sanded the scratches out of the paint work, then just polished it up with any normal polish. When I questioned him about it, he said he had done it for 20years and never had any1 come back complaining about it. Think I should just take his word for it on this occasion.

Thanx for the replies so far lads, really appreciate it.

BRG/Blk Cooper S · Apr 19th, 2008, 07:02 PM

Sorry, but if he rubbed completely through the clearcoat to remove the scratches he would effectively be ruining your paint job...............

So, stop right now and reconsider what you are doing…….

In general bodyshops are specialists in fixing accident damage and not bad (sometimes) at painting - I've seen plenty of examples of poor work (even from approved shops) that required further attention from a detailing specialist to really complete the job (sanding marks, scratches, overspray, poor blending into panels etc).

I wouldn't expect a bodyshop to detail a car to show standard nor would I expect a detailing specialist to fix accident damage and do a re-spray.
They are two entirely separate skills.

Wet sanding is a very common technique but a detailing specialist will not just look at your car and say "ooooorite I'll sand it a bit and she'll be kippers".
The first thing they will do is use an electronic paint thickness gauge to see what they have to work with, from there a decision will be made as to what can be achieved - most problems can be corrected but even the most exotic of cars will still have the odd mark here and there that is improved but not completely removed as the preservation of the paint and the overall effect is more important than marks here and there that all cars will pick up the second they roll off the assembly line (if not before).

I just had a full paint correction detail done on my S after she turned 3 by Nathan Willits from cambridgeautogleam.com - here's a quick camera-phone pic just after I collected her, the job involved going over the paint from top to bottom and some wet sanding was involved to smooth out scratches and stone chip touch ups (no bodyshop would ever get this sort of finish on a car) - if you have a look at his website my old car (Astro Black Cooper) is in the gallery (page 2 I think) and there are some really good before and afters of damage caused to the bumper by the local bin-men (bunch of *ossers).
Obviously some wet sanding was required – the clearcoat was NOT removed.

To have your entire car done to this sort of standard is around the £300 mark (which is pretty reasonable actually) - bottom line is that it looks better than new and most problems can be corrected without any need for paint – these days with paintless dent removal and the skills of a high-end detailer (as well as the great products now available) repainting any part of car should only ever be an absolute last resort – even if you are paying thousands of £’s you can always tell a car that doesn’t have factory paint.

If you need any further info feel free to PM me, I’ll be pleased to help.

Cheers, Geoff.

BRG/Blk Cooper S · Apr 19th, 2008, 07:06 PM

Sorry,
Just re-read your post and realised you've already had this done.

I would check back with them and get absolute clarification as to what was done - £20?.......doesn't fill me with confidence..
In my experience anyone who gives you the "I've been doing this for x years and no-one ever complained" etc etc is holding up a big sign saying "walk away right now".

Metallic finishes have a clearcoat, you can't just sand them off and apply some polish..

Cheers, Geoff.

minicooperboyuk · Apr 19th, 2008, 08:46 PM

Thanx for the reply mate and the green cooper S looks lovely. Well he has left some scratches as he said he couldn’t get down to them - too deep in the paintwork. It looks perfect at the minute but I am just worried about 6months down the line and after some more cleaning the shine goes and a dull affect appears.

BRG/Blk Cooper S · Apr 19th, 2008, 10:21 PM

As previously discussed you should get clarification on exactly what he has done..

Also you should ask whether a paint depth gauge was used before they wet sanded (I doubt it..).
A profesional paint specialist (detailer) will know exactly how much paint is on the panel before any attempt is made to correct problems.
They will also know (depending on their level of experience) aprox how much of their paint depth reading is clearcoat.

Not all marks/scratches can be removed - but they can be significantly improved.

If the clearcoat has been completely removed form the area in question then it will start to look very bad very quickly - I would be surprised if this is the case but at the same time I wouldn't want someone randomly sanding away at my cars paintwork - a clearcoat that has been sanded to the point where it is extremely thin will also deteriorate over a couple of years.

Clearcoat failure = complete panel respray (and again you get what you pay for, I wouldn't expect anything close to a factory job for less than £500 - £600 on a door).

Cheers, Geoff.

BRG/Blk Cooper S · Apr 19th, 2008, 10:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Hartge210 (original)

Should be ok

I've heard it called 'wet sanding' before. On www.detailngworld.co.uk a guy called Paul Dalton did the same same thing to a Bugatti Veryon

Indeed Paul may have Wet Sanded a Veyron as part of one of his "Miracle" details - which the owner would have paid several thousand pounds for..

His treatments can take up to 3 weeks and cost aprox £3k..

minicooperboyuk · Apr 19th, 2008, 11:27 PM

Thanx for all this help drainaudio. I will pop up on Monday and have a chat with him, but if this guy has cream crackered my door and in a couple of months I start to see a dull patch starting to appear are you saying I will be looking at about £500-£600 to get it repaired?

Once again thanx.

Sooper Rob · Apr 20th, 2008, 10:35 PM

I agree with drainaudio.

Someone local is Paul Reed - Wonder Detail he is very good and you could arrange a free no obligation quote. He will look at the condition of the car and might take paint readings for you also. That would give you a good idea if any damage has been done.

Some of his work,
Wonder Detail - Part 1 of some very fast cars - Detailing World

minicooperboyuk · Apr 21st, 2008, 01:50 PM

Think I will leave the panel for now, to see what happens to it over the next few weeks. If it does start to dull down then I will definatley call Paul Reed as his work looks bril.

Thanx to everyone who has replied. Much appreciated and I will keep you updated.

BRG/Blk Cooper S · Apr 21st, 2008, 04:01 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by minicooperboyuk (original)

Think I will leave the panel for now, to see what happens to it over the next few weeks. If it does start to dull down then I will definatley call Paul Reed as his work looks bril.

Thanx to everyone who has replied. Much appreciated and I will keep you updated.

PLEASE do yourself a favor and get an answer to exactly what was done to your door..

If the clearcoat has been removed (as you suggested) then the bodyshop have effectively damaged your vehicle and you should be aiming to have them rectify the problem.

No professional detailer (even Paul Dalton) will be able to do anything for you if you have clearcoat failure on that door - they'll tell you what the problem is and then advise you to go see a bodyshop..

Cheers, Geoff.

Apr 18th, 2008, 02:26 PM	#1
minicooperboyuk Cooper S rule Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 64 Offline	Sand Polish Hi all, I had slightly more than hairline scratches on my passenger door, and enquired about it at a local independent body repairer near to me. They suggested a sand polish, whereby they use sand paper that is finer than toilet paper (so they guy said anyway) and sand the lacquer and top coat of paint off so the scratches are smoothed out, then they buff it up again with polish. I asked him if the lacquer is removed wont it make the door panel look dull after time, he reassured me no. I am just getting a little worried now that it might. Dont get me wrong, the results look as good as new, but the work was only carried out this morning, just 6months down the line will it still look as good? The reason I went for this treatment instead of a spray is because this only cost £20 compared to £150+ for a re-spray. Has anyone else had this done, and what are the results after time? Do I have reason to doubt his reassurance? Thanx

Apr 19th, 2008, 07:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
BRG/Blk Cooper S w' all the toys.. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: United Kingdom Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 602 Offline	Sorry, but if he rubbed completely through the clearcoat to remove the scratches he would effectively be ruining your paint job............... So, stop right now and reconsider what you are doing……. In general bodyshops are specialists in fixing accident damage and not bad (sometimes) at painting - I've seen plenty of examples of poor work (even from approved shops) that required further attention from a detailing specialist to really complete the job (sanding marks, scratches, overspray, poor blending into panels etc). I wouldn't expect a bodyshop to detail a car to show standard nor would I expect a detailing specialist to fix accident damage and do a re-spray. They are two entirely separate skills. Wet sanding is a very common technique but a detailing specialist will not just look at your car and say "ooooorite I'll sand it a bit and she'll be kippers". The first thing they will do is use an electronic paint thickness gauge to see what they have to work with, from there a decision will be made as to what can be achieved - most problems can be corrected but even the most exotic of cars will still have the odd mark here and there that is improved but not completely removed as the preservation of the paint and the overall effect is more important than marks here and there that all cars will pick up the second they roll off the assembly line (if not before). I just had a full paint correction detail done on my S after she turned 3 by Nathan Willits from cambridgeautogleam.com - here's a quick camera-phone pic just after I collected her, the job involved going over the paint from top to bottom and some wet sanding was involved to smooth out scratches and stone chip touch ups (no bodyshop would ever get this sort of finish on a car) - if you have a look at his website my old car (Astro Black Cooper) is in the gallery (page 2 I think) and there are some really good before and afters of damage caused to the bumper by the local bin-men (bunch of *ossers). Obviously some wet sanding was required – the clearcoat was NOT removed. To have your entire car done to this sort of standard is around the £300 mark (which is pretty reasonable actually) - bottom line is that it looks better than new and most problems can be corrected without any need for paint – these days with paintless dent removal and the skills of a high-end detailer (as well as the great products now available) repainting any part of car should only ever be an absolute last resort – even if you are paying thousands of £’s you can always tell a car that doesn’t have factory paint. If you need any further info feel free to PM me, I’ll be pleased to help. Cheers, Geoff. Attached Thumbnails

Apr 20th, 2008, 10:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sooper Rob MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: North East Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 133 Offline	I agree with drainaudio. Someone local is Paul Reed - Wonder Detail he is very good and you could arrange a free no obligation quote. He will look at the condition of the car and might take paint readings for you also. That would give you a good idea if any damage has been done. Some of his work, Wonder Detail - Part 1 of some very fast cars - Detailing World Last edited by Sooper Rob : Apr 20th, 2008 at 11:50 PM.

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Apr 18th, 2008, 03:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Hartge210 Zippy - GB210 Join Date: Jul 2005 Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 778 Offline	Should be ok I've heard it called 'wet sanding' before. On www.detailngworld.co.uk a guy called Paul Dalton did the same same thing to a Bugatti Veryon

Apr 18th, 2008, 06:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
fordcymru MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: South Wales Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 100 Offline	Flatting out minor scratches is ok provided you don`t rub through the laquer coat. If the laquer coat is rubbed through there will be a patch that shows a slightly different shade. Any good refinishing technician could carry out a ( flat & polish ) with no problem.

Apr 19th, 2008, 01:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
minicooperboyuk Cooper S rule Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 64 Offline	Well don’t hold me to it fordcymru, but I am sure he rubbed through the lacquer to get to the scratches that were in the paint work, then obviously lightly sanded the scratches out of the paint work, then just polished it up with any normal polish. When I questioned him about it, he said he had done it for 20years and never had any1 come back complaining about it. Think I should just take his word for it on this occasion. Thanx for the replies so far lads, really appreciate it.

Apr 19th, 2008, 07:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
BRG/Blk Cooper S w' all the toys.. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: United Kingdom Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 602 Offline	Sorry, Just re-read your post and realised you've already had this done. I would check back with them and get absolute clarification as to what was done - £20?.......doesn't fill me with confidence.. In my experience anyone who gives you the "I've been doing this for x years and no-one ever complained" etc etc is holding up a big sign saying "walk away right now". Metallic finishes have a clearcoat, you can't just sand them off and apply some polish.. Cheers, Geoff.

Apr 19th, 2008, 08:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
minicooperboyuk Cooper S rule Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 64 Offline	Thanx for the reply mate and the green cooper S looks lovely. Well he has left some scratches as he said he couldn’t get down to them - too deep in the paintwork. It looks perfect at the minute but I am just worried about 6months down the line and after some more cleaning the shine goes and a dull affect appears.

Apr 19th, 2008, 10:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
BRG/Blk Cooper S w' all the toys.. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: United Kingdom Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 602 Offline	As previously discussed you should get clarification on exactly what he has done.. Also you should ask whether a paint depth gauge was used before they wet sanded (I doubt it..). A profesional paint specialist (detailer) will know exactly how much paint is on the panel before any attempt is made to correct problems. They will also know (depending on their level of experience) aprox how much of their paint depth reading is clearcoat. Not all marks/scratches can be removed - but they can be significantly improved. If the clearcoat has been completely removed form the area in question then it will start to look very bad very quickly - I would be surprised if this is the case but at the same time I wouldn't want someone randomly sanding away at my cars paintwork - a clearcoat that has been sanded to the point where it is extremely thin will also deteriorate over a couple of years. Clearcoat failure = complete panel respray (and again you get what you pay for, I wouldn't expect anything close to a factory job for less than £500 - £600 on a door). Cheers, Geoff.

Apr 19th, 2008, 10:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
BRG/Blk Cooper S w' all the toys.. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: United Kingdom Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 602 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Hartge210 (original) Should be ok I've heard it called 'wet sanding' before. On www.detailngworld.co.uk a guy called Paul Dalton did the same same thing to a Bugatti Veryon Indeed Paul may have Wet Sanded a Veyron as part of one of his "Miracle" details - which the owner would have paid several thousand pounds for.. His treatments can take up to 3 weeks and cost aprox £3k..

Apr 19th, 2008, 11:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
minicooperboyuk Cooper S rule Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 64 Offline	Thanx for all this help drainaudio. I will pop up on Monday and have a chat with him, but if this guy has cream crackered my door and in a couple of months I start to see a dull patch starting to appear are you saying I will be looking at about £500-£600 to get it repaired? Once again thanx.

Apr 21st, 2008, 01:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
minicooperboyuk Cooper S rule Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 64 Offline	Think I will leave the panel for now, to see what happens to it over the next few weeks. If it does start to dull down then I will definatley call Paul Reed as his work looks bril. Thanx to everyone who has replied. Much appreciated and I will keep you updated.

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Apr 21st, 2008, 04:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
BRG/Blk Cooper S w' all the toys.. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: United Kingdom Local Time: 02:14 AM Posts: 602 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by minicooperboyuk (original) Think I will leave the panel for now, to see what happens to it over the next few weeks. If it does start to dull down then I will definatley call Paul Reed as his work looks bril. Thanx to everyone who has replied. Much appreciated and I will keep you updated. PLEASE do yourself a favor and get an answer to exactly what was done to your door.. If the clearcoat has been removed (as you suggested) then the bodyshop have effectively damaged your vehicle and you should be aiming to have them rectify the problem. No professional detailer (even Paul Dalton) will be able to do anything for you if you have clearcoat failure on that door - they'll tell you what the problem is and then advise you to go see a bodyshop.. Cheers, Geoff.