[Tonyt3]

So is the single door on the 'wrong' side....? Well, for the UK market, it is. however, long term, for Mini, the world market is more important.

Technically however, the rear door itself is also poorly designed if you're thinking about child access/saftey for any market. The door isnt actually a suicide door, as suicide doors can be opened independantly. The Clubmans 'suicide' door can only be opened when the front door is also opened. Otherwise, rear passengers are stuck there. So, even in LHD countries, the front passenger has to exit the vehicle for the rear door to be opened. If there is in fact no front passenger (as would normally be the case for a 'school run Mom'), then the driver has to park the car, exit the vehicle, walk around the car, and open both front and 'suicide' door. Thats not a great solution either.

So the arguement is not 'is the door on the wrong side', but actually, does the door, on either side, actually make any sense? No, it doesnt, its a compromise whatever side of the road you traval on. Both designs are fatally flawed IMHO. The car would have looked much better with a symetric design. Whether 4 doors, or in fact just sticking with 2 doors, but perhaps lenghtening them slightly, or coming up with a radical door design (such as the early traveller concepts had) or better access via revised seat tilt design.

Mini spent a huge amount of money coming up with a radical design for the rear 'barn yard' door design (which to me looks fussy and poorly concieved), when quite frankly they should have probably kept the perfectly servicable rear hatch, and spent the time and money re-engineering the extended platorm to create 2 rear doors.

When you can see failures in the design from both perspectives of LHD and RHD, you have to ask, what were the designers thinking????

[Paul]

How is three doors in any way less safe or less sensible than two?

[Mini1380]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyt3 (original)

its a compromise whatever side of the road you traval on.

That is the whole point. Building a car is a compromise. There is no perfect car. You have to balance looks, function, practicality, price, etc., etc., etc.

I am preserving my judgement of the clubman to when I can see it in person. IMHO, they have done well, but I reserve the right to change that opinion when I actually get a chance to sit in the real thing.

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

I can't see how a suicide rear door is any cheaper to build than the utterly brilliant canterlever doors on the concept car That was neat looking, practical, virtually unique and extremely clever, whereas the suicide door is only one of those things

I can't see that the barn rear doors are that expensive a solution as virtually every van manufacturer uses almost exactly the same idea, except they make them fold back though a much more practical 180 degree arch

One thing will be interesting to see if they've sorted; in a van the join between the barn doors is the greatest source of squeaks and rattles in the entire van. With what it effectively two sets of barn doors (one right next to the driver's right ear) they will definitely have to have put a lot of effort into sorting that one out...

[Japper]

I think Tony makes some valid points, especially the school run in LH drive markets.

But it's not the first car to have to open the front first to get access to open the rear..................RX8.

How do RX8 owners cope on the school run. There's plenty about.

[McMuffin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Japper (original)

I think Tony makes some valid points, especially the school run in LH drive markets.

But it's not the first car to have to open the front first to get access to open the rear..................RX8.

How do RX8 owners cope on the school run. There's plenty about.

No comment on the asymmetric design.

But as I just came from an RX-8 I would say the access is similar to a 2 door set-up, if you want the kids to get out pavement side you still need to open the front passenger door.
The rear "suicide" doors just give a wider opening.
The worst place to use them was when you were parked between vehicles as you would box yourself in with the doors open and had to juggle around to shut them again.

[DerekH]

Tony after looking at the car and climbing into it i don't think it maters the side the door is on as does not seem to make it much easer to get in or out, as for rear leg room and boot space i don't think you will notice a vast amount of change but hey if you want to be different and a new kind of cool go for it, i would say all relevant points. The car is not for me but Mini marketing is very good as far as i see they will sell in the shed load if you ask me

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

How is three doors in any way less safe or less sensible than two?

Anyone?

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

Anyone?

Not 100% sure what your getting at, however, can I counter it with another question - in which way is this 3 door design actually more safe or more sensible than 2?

I think the original idea, like the Rx8, was probably different, but I'd like to know if there was an 'oh bl**dy heck" moment when they realised that they could only supply one rear door, instead of 2? From what I've read about it from BMW, they seem to justify it as 'better having it than not having it', and that it isnt really an issue. And yes, for people that actually purchase the clubman, they will have already considered it a non issue.

Did any of the concepts for this car have a rear door? I cant remember.

I think there would even be a pretty big market for this car without a rear door, perhaps at a small discount?

There are a lot of things to like about this car, and it'll be a success. Just cant help thinking that whichever way you look at the doors, they dont do it any favours.

[Paul]

Well, I can't really see what the arguments "against" it really are. In fact I cant really see the debate at all.

I can't see how anyone could say the Clubman is LESS convenient than the regular MINI. So MINI have done what they set out to do, there's more room for rear passengers, bigger boot, and a rear door that adds functionality if you want to use it too.

The barn doors are probably more contentious in that they're purely a "retro touch" and styling based, and have a downside in blocking the rear view quite badly. But the Club Door does exactly what it says on the tin.

[swamos]

Can I just say, that IMHO if you're child is still sitting in the back seat (with no one in the front passenger) they are probably not old enough to be hopping out of a car on their own. By the time they are they'll probably be sitting in the front seat

I'm still undecided. I've got a feeling it's just going to be too much hassle, and too expensive to be bothered with

[Step_7]

I agree - I've just recently bought a 5-door car and my 2 boys both still sit in the back - first thing I did?? That's right I engaged the childlocks on the rear doors to STOP them getting out on their own! This is also to stop them banging the doors into other cars when parked in car parks which is where I park 99% of the time - not by the side of the road.

I've been considering the Clubman for the last few months but I still haven't ordered one - however, the suicide door is not something that I can see being a problem. In fact the way I normally use the car it will be easier to get the children in and out through the larger 2-door opening. If I'm dropping them off to school at the moment I let them both out through the drivers side which in the clubman will be bigger than the hatch!

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

How is three doors in any way less safe or less sensible than two?

Probably a better question is what is this thread about other than to try and pick holes in a MINI design, when its been done better in so many other threads and articles, this one surely is asking why do a third door, when really the ulitmate question is why restrict it to just one side of the vehicle and the side which is not best for the country its built in?

But hey, I suppose some like to try and add a new twist to things to try and get the snake pit buzzing

[Stiggy]

My classic 3-door MINI is arriving in a few weeks, but I did seriously consider the Clubman on the basis it had a larger boot and was a bit ‘different’. At the time, I thought that UK models would have the door on the left.

Actually, for someone with no kids and only occasional passengers, the door is more sensible on the drivers’ side. I tend to use the back seats for occasional storage of bags/cases/shopping rather than the boot. The last time I owned a 3-door (Fiat – don’t ask!) I found it quite inconvenient and missed the easy access of a 5-door.

If there was a conventional 5-door MINI I would have been much more likely to order one. I know that MINI want to produce something that is unique in the marketplace and is a bit ‘quirky’, but they are missing out on a lot of sales. Surely BMW could see the need for something that sits between the MINI and a 1-series?

Now I’ve seen pictures of the finished Clubman, I have to say I don’t think the styling quite works. The roof looks too high, and this is made worse on models with the silver roof!

I like to think I will be driving my Cooper D with no regrets...

[Japper]

Quote: Originally Posted by McMuffin (original)

The worst place to use them was when you were parked between vehicles as you would box yourself in with the doors open and had to juggle around to shut them again.

Lol..................this is funny picturing this in my head, but i'm sure it was a right royal pain in the butt living with it.

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos (original)

Can I just say, that IMHO if you're child is still sitting in the back seat (with no one in the front passenger) they are probably not old enough to be hopping out of a car on their own. By the time they are they'll probably be sitting in the front seat

I'm still undecided. I've got a feeling it's just going to be too much hassle, and too expensive to be bothered with

Your arguement is perfectly valid, unless of course you have 2 children. They cant both sit in the front....??

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey (original)

Probably a better question is what is this thread about other than to try and pick holes in a MINI design, when its been done better in so many other threads and articles, this one surely is asking why do a third door, when really the ulitmate question is why restrict it to just one side of the vehicle and the side which is not best for the country its built in?

But hey, I suppose some like to try and add a new twist to things to try and get the snake pit buzzing

All the comment I have read about the clubman look at the issue from EITHER the perspective of being a RHD owner, or being a LHD owner. My point it that whichever side you look at the arguement from, the design has flaws. Its neither 'great' from either point of view.

I agree with your summary though, ultimatly - why a 3rd door? It doesnt do any job well, and only adds a small amount of conveniance to the overal design, at the cost of aesthetics and probably some sales (although not many I would guess). BMW's arguement that redesign of the fuel filler system to me sounds like a self justification of a 'whoops we made a **** up and didnt realise until too late' style excuse. Yes, the car shares many 'common parts' with the regular car, however, from the B pillar backwards its almost a completely new vehicle design. Therefore the position of the fuel cap could have been redesigned IMO. I guess the over riding issue though was cost. You cant tell me that BMW doesnt re-crash test a coupe after its initial launch of a 3 series saloon....? Mostly 'common parts' apart from the bodyshell.....

For me, the biggest issue with rear seat occupation in the coupe was lack of adequate leg room. This has been addressed not by adding the extra door, but by adding inches to the floor pan. Secondary to that, was rear seat access - which for a child was perfectly adequate (them being more agile than most of us oldies). The main issue was putting a toddler/baby in the back (in fact, it was a real squeeze getting a child seat into the rear compartment) or in getting an adult in the back. The extra rear door undoubtly address this issue. Obviously though, it would have been much better to have had the option on both sides of the vehicle, both from a practicality point of view, and aesthetically. Perhaps better still, the brave design shown in the early concepts with the extended front doors and very clever seat designs would have been even nicer. None of the concepts used a single rear suicide door - did they...???? i really should check, I was hoping an expert could have told me. I dont remember one though. I fact, all I can remember is the early test mules having sticky tape on, to disguise the 'missing' door, and most people guessing that a third door would be on either side of the car, depending on LHD or RHD.

And your right to many respects, getting the 'snake pit buzzing' is definatly a good idea in my opinion, as this is a forum about the car, not a private area for discussing off topic issues - and anyone that doesnt wish to contribute to the conversation need not do so. As you say, the arguements have all been made alsewhere by others - does that preclude my right from discussing it in my own terms? It is a forum about Minis isnt it? It is a Mini isnt it? Have I infringed some rules that I was unaware of? Would you rather I go to a Ford forum and talk about a car I have no love for at all? I beleive that most of the replies to this thread have added to the conversation after all. Or am I supposed to just love everything that Mini produces....?

A forum is a place to talk isnt it? Not a place to just 'search and read'. Or has that been said before and doesnt need saying again too? (in fact your right, I have said that before, after being told that its been done elsewhere, by others, better).

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

The barn doors are probably more contentious in that they're purely a "retro touch" and styling based, and have a downside in blocking the rear view quite badly. But the Club Door does exactly what it says on the tin.

I agree, and my opinion is that they focussed too much on adding a design which isnt as good as a proper hatch, for the sake for doing something 'quirky', which must have had huge development costs, whilst letting the real design issue slip past them (the non symetrical doors) and then saying they didnt have the budget to address the fuel filler cap position. Was the single rear suicide door always what they had planned, or was it only realised later that it wasnt practical from a cost point of view to have it either on both sides or on either side depending on market?

Barn doors belong on Vans ultimatly. No other car that is used as a load carrier has them (as far as I can remember). Volvos dont have them. 4x4's dont have them (didnt the dihatsu sportrack have odd shaped double rear doors - seem to remember a neighbor having trouble with one). Not sure what they bring to the party other than design quirkiness. (is that even a word...? )

[swamos]

If you have two children, again if they are old enough to let themselves out they should be old enough to let the little one out the back seat.

I'm still wavering on this as I have two children, one 3.5 and the other one 1. Even the older one still needs some help into and out of the car, and definitely needs help with her seatbelt. Its hard to beat normal full size doors for that.

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by swamos (original)

If you have two children, again if they are old enough to let themselves out they should be old enough to let the little one out the back seat.

I'm still wavering on this as I have two children, one 3.5 and the other one 1. Even the older one still needs some help into and out of the car, and definitely needs help with her seatbelt. Its hard to beat normal full size doors for that.

Concur, my little one was probably 5 before she could handle seatbelts etc by herself, although obviously we still check that its done. She's 9 now, and only recently started opening the door (or being allowed to open the rear door) herself. Obviosuly thats on a full size saloon car. She only opens it 'upon instruction'. Obviosuly, in a Mini, if she were in the rear, its irrelevant.

Interestingly, our second car is a 2 door LHD car. (unusual for the UK). When dropping her off at school, I have to park the car, and get out, and open her door for her making sure theres no chance of other vehicles coming too close. I'm probably one of the few people in the UK that would find the Clubman design slightly less hassle!!!!! Maybe i should buy one? After all, if she's and her friends are sat in the back of a clubman, I would still have to park the car to let her out of the back, whether she exited either side. I guess I would however still use the passenger side of the car, as it would avoid getting her out on the 'traffic' side of the car. So not much use for the odd rear door in the UK.

Although at least my Mother in Laws fat rear would be able to exit the rear of the Mini now. Needed to give her a big shove last time she got stuck in the rear of our Mini!!!!