Are they all as bad?

[nigel207]

Are all Mini's as awful as the 2011 Cooper D that we've been lumbered with? We swapped a 2003 Mazda MX-5 which we'd owned from new for it in August. We thought that we'd have something a bit more practical that the MX-5, and something that was cheaper to run. It may be both, but so far our thoughts are that they must be the over-priced and over-hyped things that have ever been on the road.

The ride of the Mazda was hard, but the Mini's is horrible, and it's not in the same league handling wise (and never will be being FWD). The build quality is appalling, with knocks from the rear suspension, rattles and vibrations particularly from within the dash. Then there's the Stealers. Although the car is less than six months old, it needed new wiper blades. It took our local Stealer half an hour to get them!

What a disappointment. Sadly, although it's all bought and paid for, I've no doubt that we'd have to take a big hit to get rid, but that's the route that looks most likely at the moment.

Is it a one-off, or when the rose coloured glasses are taken off, are they all like that?

[Angib]

Sounds about right. You can't expect a saloon to handle like a MX-5 as its centre of gravity is just too high. To compensate for that Mini give it moderately hard springs and, depending on your car's specification, hard or rock hard compression damping. So that produces the crashy ride, compounded by low profile tyres if you got bigger than standard wheels. Plenty of discussion here about rattles and squeaks - it's a Mini trait.

But mostly you bought a European car and you want it to be a Japanese car, which it ain't. It was with some justice that Rover employees didn't like BMW when they first took over, as it was/is a step down in manufacturing technology and systems from Honda. The German brands may have great brand status but they just don't achieve the no-fault levels of the Japanese.

[stead34]

Its just that the mazda mx5 is such a good car, other companys have tried copying it and failed, but that is a two seater roadster designed for a sporty ride with great handling not a four seater saloon which the mini is, but you can't knock the mini's handling as it still does this better than most.

As for knocks, rattles and vibrations then these can probably be fixed, It just sounds like your not happy with the car in general, like having a firm ride, this is to peoples personal taste and a test drive before buying would of brought this to light. Some people like the comfort of a luxury car and some like a hot hatch, and it was a cooper you bought.

Most japanese cars are bland and unimaginative that use the same running gear for years and years which helps with reliability, there driven by people that just have no needs for a car other than its practicality, which the japanese do well. But Im not that guy yet. Do people name there Honda civic, I dowt it, they don't have enough character for a name, a number would suit them better. "Number 4 starts every morning and my golf clubs fit in the boot" says the owner of a toyota verso.

Japanese cars are good but there never the best you got to get a european car for that.. Other than maybe the mx5 as a roadster

[mab01uk]

Always best to arrange a long test drive or hire a similar model before committing to buy, to see if really is the car for you. Assuming you have the harder 'sport' suspension and wide 17" low profile tyres option fitted there is a trade off with a much harsher ride........16" wheels/tyres and standard suspension are the better option in this case, maybe your dealer will swap them out for you?

I agree Japanese cars are more reliable than European but most have little heritage or character and do nothing for me........but each to their own.

[nigel207]

Quote: Originally Posted by mab01uk (original)

Always best to arrange a long test drive or hire a similar model before committing to buy, to see if really is the car for you. Assuming you have the harder 'sport' suspension and wide 17" low profile tyres option fitted there is a trade off with a much harsher ride........16" wheels/tyres and standard suspension are the better option in this case, maybe your dealer will swap them out for you?

I agree Japanese cars are more reliable than European but most have little heritage or character and do nothing for me........but each to their own.

As far as I'm aware, the car is a Cooper D Chilli, with a few trim options, but the wheels are 16" (non-run flats), and unless the Cooper comes with standard Sport suspension, it has standard suspension. Two or three years ago I did some testing (proper testing, not a test drive) with a Cooper S and don't remember the ride in that being as hard as the new one (perhaps it was because that car was about four years old at the time). To a large extent I can live with the hard ride (however disappointing), but it's the appallingly bad build quality with trim rattles etc that is really unacceptable.

I would tend to agree about Japanese cars lacking in character (MX-5 excepted!), but why can they generally get the build/quality/reliability right when Europeans can't? Advancing technology can be trial and error, so therefore on the odd occasion there might be reliability issues, but in 2011 there shouldn't be build/trim issues.

[stead34]

Give mini the chance to repair the build quality issues, I have the mini clubman diesel with chilli pack and runflats are fitted, but the ride isnt to harsh, check the tyre pressures to make sure mini didnt forget to adjust them after being on the transporter, to be honest I dont have any rattles either but mine was a showroom car so they may of sorted them out so the customers going on test drives wouldn't experence them. Ive just come from a subaru legacy sports tourer and I'd say the build quality is better on my mini, the subaru had a wind noise around the drivers mirror, the alarm had a faulty bonnet switch which had to be modified and the reverse sensors drove me crazy, the autobox was slow to respond, but i'd still recommend one as I learnt to live with the niggles and the car was really good in general, but touch wood the mini has had no reason to go to the dealers and being a ex master tech I can pick faults out of most cars. There are a few design flaws but there not faults just irritations...Just write down all your complaints and give it to the dealer to sort out before changing car, nothing to lose by doing that.

[JohnnyC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Angib (original)

It was with some justice that Rover employees didn't like BMW when they first took over, as it was/is a step down in manufacturing technology and systems from Honda.

I currently own a 12 year old Toyota, but it was designed in the 1980's. I have had zero problems with it in the 8.5 years I've owned it. Are you telling me BMW are 30 years behind the Japanese at building cars?

Quote: Originally Posted by stead34 (original)

Do people name there Honda civic, I dowt it, they don't have enough character for a name, a number would suit them better.

By 'character' you mean engine death rattle, steering pump failures?


Sorry, but it is off-putting to hear of so many problem.
Okay, all cars tend to suffer niggling problems. But some of the ones I've heard about people here requiring new engines (sometimes out of warranty so costing them thousands of pounds!!).
This is not what I'd expect from a 'premium' car manufacturer with a car that sells for a 'premium' price

Hope you get the problems sorted Nigel, and that nothing more serious crops up.

[mab01uk]

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnnyC (original)

I currently own a 12 year old Toyota, but it was designed in the 1980's. I have had zero problems with it in the 8.5 years I've owned it. Are you telling me BMW are 30 years behind the Japanese at building cars?

I think Toyota cars have had their fair share of serious problems worldwide recently.................

Toyota recalls million's of cars:
"Akio Toyoda, the President and CEO of Toyota Motor Corporation, apologized in front of a Congressional hearing for lying and hiding the facts, which was systematically done, with his knowledge, over a period of many years."

Toyota Recall Jan. 21, 2010.flv - YouTube

[stead34]

There are people that have had no problems with there mini aswell, its just your getting your information from a forum, which most people come to when they want to moan about faults. So you only hear about the bad ones.

Japanese cars are so expensive to repair they are scrapped if work needs doing, thats why you dont see many old ones on the road. If you want to have big repair bills then a jap car can hit your wallet hard even for minor problems.

I would agree that problems do give character to a car, look at alpha romeo's, they wouldn't of sold a single car if everyone wanted a 30 yr old designed but reliable means of transport. They want a car with character that makes them feel good.

The car you choose does reflect on your own personality, where would you rather go, a toyota owners club meeting or a mini's owners club, dont buy a car for its reliability, its boring, no one wants to hear about it, toyota drivers have so much time as there cars are so reliable they start trainspotting, building model aircrafts or jigsaws on a sunday

[minimhf]

Hi Nigel,

I did exactly the same as you. After owning 3 Mk3 Mx5 2 litre sports, I finally felt like a change (not to mention a bit more spare cash in my wallet!) and traded in for a Cooper D. It's got the bigger tyres and sports suspension.

I think the first thing to note is that the Mini just isn't an mx5. In my opinion, and I've had 3 so I'm a little biased, the mx5 is the best handling car you can get for £20k. However, in fairness to the mini, I'm still able to chuck it round corners and not be killed, I just need to knock around 10mph off what I'd do it in the mx5! I did find it odd driving a front wheel drive car again for the first time in 5 years, and find that the mini gets a bit understeer'y, not to mention torque steer when you boot it in 2nd gear. Oh, and the backache I get from the seat is unreal....

As for rattles and noise, I guess it's a bigger car, interior wise, so there's just more stuff that's possible to rattle. I have the odd creak from my dashboard every now and again, but a bit of a thump usually sorts it out. Also, have you discovered the 'secret' glove box in the dashboard above the glove box? Sometimes that needs a bit of a shove to shut up too.

I don't love the mini like the mx5, I think we've both been spoilt by the handling, plus customer service from Mazda (RRG Stockport) was outstanding, compared the the atrocious service you get from Mini (Williams Manchester, Sarah Walsh and Service Dept.) But on the plus side, I can do twice as many miles on a tank of fuel, insurance is less, and road tax is £20.

Like others have mentioned, if your rattles are doing your nut in, take it back to the dealer and make a nuisance of yourself till it's fixed. Just live in the knowledge that by the time you come to sell it, the Mk4 mx5 will be out - good times!

[shiku84]

You cant buy a Mini and expect practicality. I bought my 1 cos i thought they were cool but man i do regret it now.

[nigel207]

Quote: Originally Posted by shiku84 (original)

You cant buy a Mini and expect practicality. I bought my 1 cos i thought they were cool but man i do regret it now.

They ARE more practical than the MX-5 (for us anyway).

minimhf

I think you're absolutely right on most points, and agree about the back ache too! Yes, I have found the "secret" dash cubby. Sadly, given all the hype about BMW, the build quality of the Mini just compounds my thoughts about that hype and people with darkly tinted rose coloured glasses when anything German is mentioned.

Anyone know any good Stealer near the Derbys/Notts border - not Shytners, Nottingham or Shatstones, Chesterfield thanks! Half an hour to get a pair of wiper blades, and appalling service given to my Mini owning neighbour!

[mowog]

Strange...

I own a Cooper D and a Cooper S both 2009 builds. Neither rattles the S has a harder ride mainly due to the run flats (getting changed today). Both are on 205/45 17's

Bad handling if you want experience that try my Discovery 4 on its 18" off road wheels. Compared to the Discovery the Minis handling is a dream.

[1bad4x]

I Would not change a thing!

Yea it has some rattles!
Yea I blew the gearbox!
As for ride I have 17" with 45s and would not change a thing!
Firm but not harsh!
Easy drive.
I got mine because they ARE cool! & I live 5hrs from the ski field so wanted a cheap car to get there & back for a day trip. & it is perfect!
Up 5am drive to mountain ski all day until my legs cant take any more, Then drive back home. not one complaint!
Other cars I have had Jap inc. The drive down has worn me out to a point & Dreaded the drive home. In the mini I enjoy the drive home as much as the drive down.

Sounds like OP is missing his MX5 more than disliking the mini. Just finding stuff to dislike about it.
Nothing will stack up to my Mini & I will find all sorts to moan about even if the car in question was better!
Lambo to low
Ferrari to noisy
etc. well not that much etc. as the MINI IS WITH OUT DOUBT THE BEST CAR ON THE ROAD!

[nigel207]

Quote: Originally Posted by mowog (original)

Strange...

I own a Cooper D and a Cooper S both 2009 builds. Neither rattles the S has a harder ride mainly due to the run flats (getting changed today). Both are on 205/45 17's

Bad handling if you want experience that try my Discovery 4 on its 18" off road wheels. Compared to the Discovery the Minis handling is a dream.

Also owning a Discovery 3, I wouldn't compare the two; they're totally different vehicles. The Mini doesn't handle too badly, but is not in the same league as the MX-5 (and never will be) despite being aimed at a similar market (a fun vehicle). It's more the appalling build quality and over hype that is so galling.

Yes, we do miss the MX-5 (that would never be in doubt because it served us so well for eight years - and nothing fell off, and no rattles or knocks), but the time was right for change. On paper (yes, I was sucked in by the hype I admit) the Mini ticked the right boxes, but it's a pity the paper and hype didn't translate into the real thing.