Resolved - Black soot from turbocharger (with photos)

[MiniDeLux]

Just a final update for anyone following this. Due to numerous problems with my last dealership (I was advised this was normal and that the engine bay and turbo would simply be cleaned), the car was finally serviced at another authorized Mini dealer. The car was taken in for diagnostics on the turbo. A pre-cat leak and a lack of boost pressure were found. This was not a problem with the wastegate. The engine was also running a little rough.

BMW/Mini authorized replacement of the entire Garrett turbocharger along with the replacement of the seal between the catalytic converter and the turbo. BMW/Mini authorized 100% parts and 50% labour on the job as a goodwill (estimated cost of the turbo itself is €1500-€1600). The car is 6 months out of warranty. In addition to the labour, I paid for all small parts under €20 (not covered under the goodwill). Repair was carried out in in less than 2 days. I would also advise having them change the cabin AND engine air filters at the same time; mine were black with soot.

Aside from the pre-cat leak, the only info BMW gave to the dealership was that there was some kind of internal problem with the turbo. Apparently the dealers have no authorization to disassemble the turbo so the unit will be returned to Garrett for analysis and re-conditioning. I have no specific info on the problem other than it wasn't anything to do with the oil feed. Mechanic is guessing some kind of problem with the internal seals.

Due to raw diesel exhaust leakage and the presence of high levels of carbon monoxide (diesel exhaust contains approx 7000 ppm) entering the engine bay from the leakage, I would urge anyone with similar issues to have an analysis and repair carried out asap.


---------- Original post below ---------------

Hello All,

I'm looking for some help here as I am having ongoing problems with my Clubman. The car was just in for a clutch and flywheel replacement (see associated thread in the Clubman forum). I picked up the car after the clutch job on Saturday and noticed a diesel exhaust (not gas) smell inside the cabin. Upon opening the hood, I see that the turbochargers is black with soot and so is almost the entire underside of the hood of the car above and to the right of the turbo.

The turbo smells of diesel exhaust when the car is running although I cannot see visible emissions. However, it is clearly leaking and not gas tight. I took it back to the dealership first thing this morning (they were closed over the weekend).

They insist they didn't have to access anywhere near the area of the turbo when they changed the clutch and they are now claiming that the car needs a new turbocharger. Estimate €1500 not including tax. I just paid €2300 for a new clutch and flywheel and am currently disputing with BMW that it be covered (at least partially) under warranty. The car is just 2 years old with 75,000 km on the clock.

I cannot believe the turbo needs replacing; I find this incredible. The dealership is telling me it is okay to drive the car from now until the 21st when they will repair the turbo and at the same time replace yet another waterpump. I have been told they will ask BMW for a "goodwill", but having just been refused for clutch/flywheel I am not optimistic at all about this.

My concerns are the emissions entering the cabin and the viability of a malfunctioning turbo for 3 weeks until service.

My questions are:

1) Is this the turbo itself or the wastegate?
2) Has anyone had similar problems?
3) Is it necessary to access the area of the turbo to change clutch/flywheel on a second gen Mini?
4) Is the car safe to drive for another 3 weeks?

Please, any help would be massively appreciated.

UPDATE: Included some photos of the soot on the Garrett and the underside of the hood. FYI, the black on the hood is soot, not heat damage.

[Seamus Not Faster]

Presumably yours is a PSA engined car ?

The sooty carbon deposits that you can see typically originate from the turbocharger wastegate spindle seal.
I had this issue about 18 months ago when the car had only covered about 18K miles still under warranty.
All the dealer will do,under his PUMA instruction, is to jetwash it all clean and tell you it is normal and nothing to worry about.
I have now covered over 36K miles with no performance/turbo issues.
The soot eventually reaccumulates, which is more of a nuisance than an indication of anything serious.

If the turbo was on its way out,usually through bearing failure, your car would have become smoky and there would be a noticeable lag and drop in performance.
Such a drop could indicate either a loose pipe on the pressurised side or a more serious turbo isssue.

Soot on its own shouldn't concern you. Soot build up from the wastegate is on the non pressurised side of the circuit which is why there is no performance issue.

I would suspect that something has been disturbed whilst removing the engine from its mounts to drop out the gearbox to get to the clutch and flywheel.

What is altogether more puzzling is the source of the diesel that you can smell.

Hope this helps.

[MiniDeLux]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, it's the PSA diesel. The turbocharger issue is only since the clutch/flywheel change.

However, I wouldn't say it's only a "little" soot. Almost the entire underside of the hood and the turbo itself are black. It's not clear to me that it's the wastegate.

What concerns me most is the emissions smell I get inside the cabin. That can be quite heavy and, now that it's winter, quite smelly. I guess since it's leaking from the turbo, it's being driven through the vents into the car. For this reason, I want it resolved. I should clarify and say that the diesel smell is exhaust smell, not fuel smell.

I've scanned the Peugeot forums (the 408's use the same engine) and it appears that this also occurs. I have no conclusive or definitive resolution a the moment.

I am, however, not impressed by the dealership's claim that it will be €1500 to repair.

[PeterBel]

I had the same problem since I bought my car in 2008.

But there were no smell. Smell itself could be sign of something different.

[Mrs Clubman]

I have had the same problem & have sent you a private message.

[MinikinMawr]

My alternator failed on my 2007 cooper d, 78000 miles and out of warranty, bmw at first quoted £1500 to replace the alternator and battery, i complained to bmw and they agreed to pay nearly half the cost, i just cant understand how an alternator can fail on such a young car, i think the cost is unacceptable and i wouldnt ever buy another mini or bmw after this, people need to start making a list of all the faults they have had on there cooper ds with psa engine so we can get a good case going to grt our money back.

[MiniDeLux]

Quote: Originally Posted by MinikinMawr (original)

My alternator failed on my 2007 cooper d, 78000 miles and out of warranty, bmw at first quoted £1500 to replace the alternator and battery, i complained to bmw and they agreed to pay nearly half the cost, i just cant understand how an alternator can fail on such a young car, i think the cost is unacceptable and i wouldnt ever buy another mini or bmw after this, people need to start making a list of all the faults they have had on there cooper ds with psa engine so we can get a good case going to grt our money back.

Out of warranty, the cost of repair on these cars is indeed incredible. Furthermore, some of these repairs are hard to DIY (requires the use of special tools, etc...). I'm thinking about buying a cheap, low repair cost daily driver to replace my Mini and just use the Mini for travelling and "fun" trips. I love the car, but financially I just can't support one major repair per year on top of the regular maintenance.