Frustrated with Turbo Lag - MINI Cooper Forum

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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2012, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Frustrated with Turbo Lag

I am still having ongoing problems with the turbo on my Clubman. I've been trying to chase this down since December and I have had no joy in finding a solution.

The old turbo was damaged when the dealership replaced the clutch and flywheel. However, since the new turbo was installed, the car has what I would describe as either no boost or bad turbo lag. Even the damaged turbo was providing more power than this new unit.

I've had all the air hoses inspected for leaks/loose connections. The turbo inlet hose was slightly loose but after tightening I have the same problem with lack of boost. Air filter has been changed, but still no joy.

I'm pulling my hair out here! I've searched Peugeot forums as well (208's have the same engine/turbo setup) but can't find any solution to this one.

Anyone have some suggestions as to what else I can chase down before I go bald? Car drives fine, idle is okay. Just no power or "oompf" anymore.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Do you have a boost gauge? How are you confirming that you're not actually producing the ~11PSI / .9Bar?
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2012, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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No, I don't have a boost gauge. I cannot confirm through measurement that I am actually producing the specified boost pressure.

My interpretation of the loss of power comes from my prior driving experience with the car. In my opinion, I perceive a noticeable loss of power throughout the rpm band up until approximately 2500 rpms at which point the car seems to generate some power. However, this could be due to the rotational forces of the high-revving engine. Taking off from a complete stop feels like there is something holding the car back and/or there is a large weight attached to the car.

Applying full throttle in a lower gear on the highway yields a flat response. I used to be pushed back noticeably in the seat prior to the change of the turbo. I have driven other D model Coopers and my car is flat in comparison.

It is true that the car is not throwing any codes and this has been confirmed by the dealership. The car has been tested for vacuum leaks but none were found.

I do not know if this has something to do with the MAF, a solenoid or the alignment/adjustment of the variable vains in the turbo. Hence, I am completely puzzled as is the dealer.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 2012, 07:38 PM
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I'm no expert so I could be way out here but you need to find out if the turbo is producing pressure or if the pressure is being lost somewhere or if there is a non turbo related problem.

Logically with the turbo having been changed that would be the place to start. Get the people who did the turbo change to put a boost test guage in to the system to see if the correct boost is being produced.

If there is little or no boost then they will have to find & sort the problem. It could be a stuck or broken EGR valve or maybe the turbos internal wastegate staying open or not closing all the way. Not sure but these faults should flag up a fault code but I could be wrong.

If the boost is good then they need to pressure test the whole charge system. There is a machine to do this that pushes smoke into the system & if there are any leaks the smoke will show where it is.

Like I say, I could bt totally wrong but you could put these points to the people who are, at the end of the day responsible for the turbo needing to be replaced.

HTH.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 2012, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Well, the dealership checked for vacuum leaks and found none. In their opinion, they think the car is driving okay, but I drove the car for 2+ years when I first bought it in 2009 and it used to throw me back in my seat. I have also driven other Cooper D's and the difference between those cars and mine is noticeable.

Since the car is not throwing any error codes, the dealer is saying there is not much they can do. They checked the EGR and it was operating properly.

I will ask them about pressure testing the charge system.

Thanks for the suggestion. To be honest, it isn't a disabling loss of power, but it is noticeable and it's frustrating to think that I'm not getting the optimal engine power from the car.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Does the car sense boost pressure within the air intake system and use that to calculate how much fuel to add? If so, the sensor could be faulty hence not enough fuel going in when the turbo is trying to boost, hence low boost and less power. A lack of boost could be something other than the turbo's actual mechanical operation.

I would be tempted to get a second opinion from a diesel fuel injection specialist rathen than a car garage, as they work on diesels day in/day out and may have a better understanding of the possible causes than your main dealer grease monkey. Why not try yellow pages and look for a nearby Bosch fuel injection specialist, give them a call and explain the problem and see if they can help.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2012, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Hi thanks for the reply.

Turned out to be a loose hose on the turbo intake. I replaced the section of piping between the MAF and turbo intake because the old self-adjusting clamp style piping wasn't doing it for me. Cleaned the turbo, orange rubber gasket and intake pipe with brake cleaner. Reattached the intake pipe with a new jubilee clip and I was good to go.

I guess I was getting unmetered air (i.e. air ingress after the MAF at the turbo intake) entering the system, so the ECU was probably calculating the fuel to air ratio incorrectly resulting in power loss (too rich perhaps?)

After adjustment - problem solved!


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Originally Posted by pukmeister View Post
Does the car sense boost pressure within the air intake system and use that to calculate how much fuel to add? If so, the sensor could be faulty hence not enough fuel going in when the turbo is trying to boost, hence low boost and less power. A lack of boost could be something other than the turbo's actual mechanical operation.

I would be tempted to get a second opinion from a diesel fuel injection specialist rathen than a car garage, as they work on diesels day in/day out and may have a better understanding of the possible causes than your main dealer grease monkey. Why not try yellow pages and look for a nearby Bosch fuel injection specialist, give them a call and explain the problem and see if they can help.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2012, 10:10 AM
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Well done on diagnosing & fixing the problem yourself

You should send an invoice to the dealer
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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Not that I want to defend a dealership, but it was a bit of a sneaky problem.

On the D engine, the crankcase vents into the section of piping between the turbo and the MAF, so there's always a little engine oil in there. The dealership would tighten up the piping and clamp and I'd be good for a little while, then no boost.

One day I got so frustrated I disassembled the entire section of pipe between the air box and turbo to check the MAF and everything else. I noticed that the little input pipe on the turbo was slick with engine oil (due to the venting) as was the little orange gasket seal. So even though the clamp would be tightened up to the point of almost stripping the clamp screw, because of the oil contamination it kept slowly working itself off the turbo.

Enter the brake cleaner. Now the clamp screw is barely tightened and that little orange gasket grips like crazy! After cleaning with the brake cleaner, that pipe isn't going anywhere!

Hope this can help someone.

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Well done on diagnosing & fixing the problem yourself

You should send an invoice to the dealer
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Sep 8th, 2012, 09:11 PM
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I have the same problems but am going to get it boxed and hopefully it will go away. I haven't disconnected the battery to see if it resets to default. It is very annoying :-/
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Sep 9th, 2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniDeLux View Post
The dealership would tighten up the piping and clamp and I'd be good for a little while, then no boost.
You missed this important clue/sentence out of your previous posts, you said it was no good since they fitted a new turbo, now youve said it was ok after they tightened up the piping for while, the clue is in there.

Sent from my IPhone using the space station.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 2012, 06:42 AM Thread Starter
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The problem wasn't immediately obvious - it was a slow process of discovery. Actually, I thought the clamp was simply bad and didn't realize the piping was contaminated with engine oil until I disassembled it myself.

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You missed this important clue/sentence out of your previous posts, you said it was no good since they fitted a new turbo, now youve said it was ok after they tightened up the piping for while, the clue is in there.

Sent from my IPhone using the space station.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2012, 08:34 AM
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A further update been running a dtuk box now for about 3 weeks and the turbo lag at 1/ 1.5k is destroying me, I have checked all hoses for leaks, plugged it in no faults but when I rev at idle it hesitates then picks up again. Car drives fine away from that amount of rev's and am now thinking turbo is goosed, will take the hoses off and see if there is any movement in the blade shaft :-/
Has anyone else had this and fixed it???? Apart from the fix in this post? Cheers.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 2012, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Small update from me. Since I last posted about this issue, I've noticed that I'm still not getting full boost even though the hoses are all now tight. On a cold morning - like today at 1.5C! - this thing pulls like a train and throws me into my seat if I hit the gas. However, once the engine warms up, it gets all kind of mushy again with reduced boost. I don't know if this is a charge air temperature issue maybe? I've checked the temp sensor and it seems to be seated okay. Garage tells me there are no codes being thrown. So I'm only sitting at about 80% joy instead of 100%.

Hope you get it sorted, it can be a bugger to isolate and fix.

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Originally Posted by Dixy72 View Post
A further update been running a dtuk box now for about 3 weeks and the turbo lag at 1/ 1.5k is destroying me, I have checked all hoses for leaks, plugged it in no faults but when I rev at idle it hesitates then picks up again. Car drives fine away from that amount of rev's and am now thinking turbo is goosed, will take the hoses off and see if there is any movement in the blade shaft :-/
Has anyone else had this and fixed it???? Apart from the fix in this post? Cheers.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 2012, 04:57 PM
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well I have given up, was thinking of going down the crankspeed sensor route, so guys where is it?? is it an easy fix? cheers in advance ;-)
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