[joshie]

So, I am going to be buying a used Cooper S in the next few weeks and I just cannot decide whether to spend and extra couple of thousand pounds on a post facelift as opposed to models prior to July 04...

Are there major differences in driving and performance.. Its just for less money than a basic post 54 I could get an 03 model with Harmon Kardon, Full Leather and Navigation System!

All I really know is they have 7 more bhp and a LSD....?

P.s - I like fast cars with good performance hence why purcahsing an MCS, hope you can help!

[feenaldo]

If it is an 05 facelift for example it won't have LSD unless it was specced with that option.

I think that it is possible to find nicely specced Face-lifts for not an awful amount extra, and worth it in my opinion.

It is really down to your budget, how are you intending to purchase it? Outright or using MINI select or something simular? Have a chat to the dealership and see if they can tailor you a plan to get what you really want, the more money you save at purchase the more money you will have to buy mods

[Hugo]

I had an July 05 Cooper + Cooper S and now an Aug 06 Cooper S. You actually notice a difference in build quality using different screws to hold headunit in (all I can think of at min), etc. Post face lift have different (improved) engine and suspension components.

I would go for facelift. People say the most fun S's are lightweight one's. But my latest S with sunroof and H/K and JCW Sparcos seats is more fun than last low-spec one. It depends what your looking for.

It wasn't till Aug/Sep05 that the Cooper S's had LSD as standard.

Supercharged (R53) have dropped alot in price. I would a few months and not buy the 1st one you see have a good look about, I made that mistake.

[Capsaisin]

It's probably worth going for the facelift model, just for the improved gearbox ratios. However, IMO the facelift seems to be less prone to general electrical and mechanical faults reported for older cars.

If budget allows, definitely go for the facelift (July 2004 build onwards).

LSD would be nice, but you can cope without - I have to.

[joshie]

Can you feel a major difference in the handling between a model with LSD and one without?

Also, how different are the gear ratios?

[Hugo]

You notice the gear ratios and 7 Bhp. Faster acceleration.

i only noticed the LSD on a sliippy surface, foot to the board coming out of corners, etc, sorting things out.

[feenaldo]

LSD is a great thing to have if your planning on tuning.

As for saying a light S is "more fun" I think that you can shed any weight allowance you have used elsewhere in a variety of ways. Ditch the MINI rims for example they are super heavy I even read on here some chap that only uses 3 wheel nuts... but thats possibly taking it a little to far as its a MINI not an F1 car but as Tesco say "every little helps!"

Even though MINI do some strange things sometimes they certainly didn't make a claim the facelift was better... it really is an improved version, better build, less rattles (well In mine anyway).

Gear ratios is something you notice if you've driven a pre facelift for a long time. It feels easier to drive in my opinion.

Best thing is get out there are go sacre some sales people on test drives, its bags of fun and you can see if we all talk rubbish or you agree or whatever

[minigolf]

I have an April 04 build MCS, and have spent a little bit of time behind the wheel of facelifted models. To be honest, find the best example of either one you can, and you can’t go wrong. If you take a step back, especially as someone who doesn't currently own a MINI, the driving experience of the two is basically the same.

Here’s a list of the pros I see for each model, which are my opinion only, others may disagree

Pre-facelift pros

• Clock position near reaer vision mirror is better
• Two spoke steering wheel with thumb grips is better
• Rear fogs in main tailight cluster is better
• Poxy chrono pack wasn’t available, haha

Post facelift pros

• Front dash construction improved, supposedly less rattles
• Gear ratios changed, adds to feeling of improved pace more than extra bhp
• Exhaust pops and crackles more
• LSD made available, seek a model with this option
• Flat chrome grille surround is better
• Headunit can play MP3s (or at least this was the case on Aus spec cars, not sure what headunit we got)

Apart from the LSD availability I don’t reckon there’s too much in it to be honest. Other than the general rule of thumb to buy the newest car with the lowest mileage you can afford. Clearly, discretion is required with this rule of thumb as you need to make a judgement about which car is the “best” purchase, in terms of the way it has been maintained, its current condition and so on.

Dunno how many people in the UK ticked the DSC option, but if it was me looking at a used motor, I’d be putting preference to those sorts of options as opposed to HK. That might be the grandpa in me, but having had DSC save me on at least one occasion, and testing the system out on a skidpan a couple of times, well, the standard stereo sounds fine to me.

Do the usual things like check for expansion tank problems, engine mounts and whatever else anyone adds to the common list of faults...

[kalv]

Joshie... buy my MCS (Pre-facelift) ... it's been tuned by Hartge if you looking for that extra performance :-)

[MiniPetrolHead]

Or buy my "Face Lift" model cooper S, with chilli pack, black BMW Mini S-Spoke alloy wheels 17", built in DVD player, and has been tuned using GTT, MiniMania and Lohen parts including 15% smaller supercharger pulley.

As this is a Face Lift model it has better head lights, up dated supercharger with the teflon coated blades and closer ratio gear box.

Im open to an offer so if your interested PM me.

[Fen]

My Sep 04 build facelift has nav, HK, Visibility, heated seats, MFSW etc. and I didn't pay a premium for it even with only 18,600 miles when I bought it in December. Being an early facelift it doesn't have LSD nor the phone buttons on the MFSW, both of which I'd like. I'll probably fit a Quaife LSD in the future and live without being able to integrate factory Bluetooth.

I didn't drive a pre-facelift but a Works with LSD I drove was totally different to my non-LSD car so I think it's worth having, but then again the aftermarket makes better ones than were fitted standard so with a bit of extra money spent in the future you can have a better car.

FWIW a woman where I used to work bought a late pre-facelift R53 which has the chrono pack, so it must have been available in the UK at least at that time.

[minigolf]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fen (original)

...FWIW a woman where I used to work bought a late pre-facelift R53 which has the chrono pack, so it must have been available in the UK at least at that time.

What you talkin' about?

[RooniusMaximus]

This may seem like a daft question, but how do you know its build date? ie that it is Sept 04 for example rather than a car that been sat about for ages before being registered.

[MINI-Morgan]

Its written on the drivers side of the engine bay MINI stamp out the production date so you know the real age.

Anyone want a July 04 facelift model black MCS??