MINI2

The General · Oct 4th, 2002, 02:26 PM

I have heard rumours (from an employee of BMW UK) that they plan to revamp the Cooper S for the 2004 model year.

Major improvements include 180bhp output (for a claimed sub 6.0 sec dash to 60mph), different wheels and more equipment, plus a higher price!

Maybe true, maybe not. Ask your dealer, although they will not probably tell you the truth!

I do think, although others may disagree, that the S needs more ooomph to stay ahead of the increasing able competition! This revamp will probably do the trick - but question is what does all this mean of the current S?

T G.

AidenL · Oct 4th, 2002, 03:03 PM

More power.........always good !

daro911 · Oct 4th, 2002, 03:50 PM

[quote]Originally posted by The General
[b]I have heard rumours (from an employee of BMW UK) that they plan to revamp the Cooper S for the 2004 model year.

but question is what does all this mean of the current S?

It will mean owners of the current "S" will have a bloody good reason to sell there cars and buy another updated and improved and even faster "S". It will mean the poor sods who can't afford a brand new "S" will happily buy our old slower originals

Everybody will be happy and BMW will shift a sh*t load of more MCS

The alternative of leaving the MINI basically unchanged for 4 decades like the original is frankly, and thankfully not going to happen again

Roll on MY 2004

Davbret · Oct 4th, 2002, 03:50 PM

Right now you can get an ECU reflash for $750 and intake for about $200. So for under a grand you can boost output to ~180bhp. Go for a more aggressive tune and pay maybe 2-3 times that, but get upwards of 200-220bhp. Why wait for 2 years and spend (undoubtedly) more?

R

The General · Oct 4th, 2002, 04:02 PM

I am not to sure about this, even although I started the thread and the person told me about the temporary shortage of 17's in the Summer before I read it anywhere, although looking objectively on the situation, it is probably somewhere near to what is going to happen.

For sure BMW need to think about updating the MINI within a year or so, especially if the Cooper S is to remain the class leader. There has also been talk in the motoring press that the Chrysler based engine (in all MINIs) will be phased out in preference for something else.

But from what I have been reading on this forum (and others) there are still niggling problems regarding build quality that will hopefully eventually be sorted out, and I think the 2004 model year will probably be a big improvement in every sense.

BMW know they cannot rest on their laurels, the MINI is great, but I think future variants will be better still. After all the Cooper S chassis can handle more power still.

As for us who have bought new MINIs, well, we have all been doing the last stage of vehicle development for BMW - and enjoying it at the same time !!

T G.

NEMINI · Oct 4th, 2002, 04:10 PM

BMW hasn't even announced 2003 specs yet so I highly doubt any rumours heard about 2004 will be anything but rumours.

mini-is-4-me · Oct 4th, 2002, 04:14 PM

I doubt anything changes of significance until at least 2005. I believe the car will sell as is until then. Only when sales/demand starts to dwindle will changes be contemplated. Right now since 2003 is very nearly sold...that seems unlikely.

The Ultimate Driver · Oct 5th, 2002, 12:33 AM

BMW AG is under contract with D/C to purchase the current engine until 2007. Very doubtful anything will happen before then in regards to the BMW designed, built by Peugeot engine venture.

NEMINI · Oct 5th, 2002, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ultimate Driver
BMW AG is in contract with D/C to purchase the current engine until 2007. Very doubtful anything will happen before then.

Could still use the same engine and just tweak and tune it some more, which I do beleive we will see.

Kupa · Oct 7th, 2002, 03:30 PM

Yep, too early for the BMW/Peugoet engine. But this upgrade doesn't make sense to me - it would wipe out the market for the S Works upgrade overnight, as who would pay £3500 for 200bhp S Works kit when you get 180bhp in the standard car (for presumably considerably less to avoid getting too much pricier than the CTR).

Less sense still when you consider that BMW is helping John Cooper Garages homologate the S Works kit for sale worldwide through their dealer network.

pcvillain · Oct 7th, 2002, 04:36 PM

I have no insider knowledge of what BMW plan to do with the MINI range.
But I know 1 thing for sure and that is a company like BMW will keep on developing year on year. 1stly it wil be cosmetic ie glove box wooden fascia etc. Then when the performance starts to lag compared to competitors the engine will be tweaked.
Lets face it we stopped living in caves years ago
If they dont evolve they will die

MiNiGuY · Oct 15th, 2002, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ultimate Driver
BMW AG is under contract with D/C to purchase the current engine until 2007. Very doubtful anything will happen before then in regards to the BMW designed, built by Peugeot engine venture.

D/C have expressed in recent months that they are not particularly happy with the arrangement overall. BMW have equally expressed that they are not happy either.

Talks to reach an agreement continue.

Keith · Oct 15th, 2002, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The General
I have heard rumours (from an employee of BMW UK) that they plan to revamp the Cooper S for the 2004 model year.

Major improvements include 180bhp output (for a claimed sub 6.0 sec dash to 60mph), different wheels and more equipment, plus a higher price!

Maybe true, maybe not. Ask your dealer, although they will not probably tell you the truth!

I do think, although others may disagree, that the S needs more ooomph to stay ahead of the increasing able competition! This revamp will probably do the trick - but question is what does all this mean of the current S?

T G.

If 163hp gets the car to 60 in 6.9, my guess it it will take more than 180hp to get under 6 seconds. 180hp is just a 10% increase so a 6.2 second dash sounds more realistic - all other things being equal. That still pretty fast - but can you ever go fast enough?

Keith · Oct 15th, 2002, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kupa
Yep, too early for the BMW/Peugoet engine. But this upgrade doesn't make sense to me - it would wipe out the market for the S Works upgrade overnight, as who would pay £3500 for 200bhp S Works kit when you get 180bhp in the standard car (for presumably considerably less to avoid getting too much pricier than the CTR).

Less sense still when you consider that BMW is helping John Cooper Garages homologate the S Works kit for sale worldwide through their dealer network.

Here's a thought... could the rumored revamped S and the works S sold through the BMW dealers be the same car?

Bilbo Baggins · Oct 16th, 2002, 01:22 AM

How about a real performance MCS? 180 - 200 HP in a no frills body. NO stereo, NO air conditioner, NO electric windows, NO rear seat, factory roll cage, SPARCO seats, 5 point harnesses, you know a real back to basics racer.

What do ya think?

EBMCS03 · Oct 16th, 2002, 02:37 AM

WOW... hummm intersting... I want a 180HP MINI S' but I dont want to wait till 2004!!

Davbret: wheres this ECU upgrade for $750? Thats quite a bit for just a ECU upgrade...

Basil · Oct 16th, 2002, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MiNiGuY

D/C have expressed in recent months that they are not particularly happy with the arrangement overall. BMW have equally expressed that they are not happy either.

Good. Hopefully both sides will agree to dump it earlier than planned.

Leo · Oct 16th, 2002, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith

If 163hp gets the car to 60 in 6.9, my guess it it will take more than 180hp to get under 6 seconds. 180hp is just a 10% increase so a 6.2 second dash sounds more realistic - all other things being equal. That still pretty fast - but can you ever go fast enough?

JCW say that the S Works will do 0-60 in 6.0 . That is with 200bhp so 180 is likely to be slower (although obviously depends on the torque aswell). Also under 6 in a front wheel drive car is going to be v. difficult regardless of how much power you have.

My S works is here in Feb

swamos · Oct 16th, 2002, 09:27 AM

I'm really not sure about all this. I think that once the car starts to approach 200bhp, FWD will have trouble getting the power down. I think we need the mini WRC (4 wheel drive).

Kupa · Oct 16th, 2002, 09:45 AM

250bhp through front wheels is possible according to Alfa Romeo (147 GTA), although most seem to agree this is towards the limit of what you can put through steering wheels with current technology.

BMW knows its stuff, I can't see them having a problem...

Oct 4th, 2002, 02:26 PM	#1
The General MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2002 Local Time: 07:37 PM Posts: 47 Offline	Revamped Cooper S planned I have heard rumours (from an employee of BMW UK) that they plan to revamp the Cooper S for the 2004 model year. Major improvements include 180bhp output (for a claimed sub 6.0 sec dash to 60mph), different wheels and more equipment, plus a higher price! Maybe true, maybe not. Ask your dealer, although they will not probably tell you the truth! I do think, although others may disagree, that the S needs more ooomph to stay ahead of the increasing able competition! This revamp will probably do the trick - but question is what does all this mean of the current S? T G.

Oct 4th, 2002, 03:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
AidenL Nice TTs......... Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: On The Coast........ Local Time: 08:37 PM Posts: 42,173 Offline	More power.........always good ! *Global Moderator*

Oct 4th, 2002, 03:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
daro911 MINI2 Senior Join Date: May 2002 Local Time: 08:37 PM Posts: 495 Offline	Re: Revamped Cooper S planned [quote]Originally posted by The General [b]I have heard rumours (from an employee of BMW UK) that they plan to revamp the Cooper S for the 2004 model year. but question is what does all this mean of the current S? It will mean owners of the current "S" will have a bloody good reason to sell there cars and buy another updated and improved and even faster "S". It will mean the poor sods who can't afford a brand new "S" will happily buy our old slower originals Everybody will be happy and BMW will shift a sh*t load of more MCS The alternative of leaving the MINI basically unchanged for 4 decades like the original is frankly, and thankfully not going to happen again Roll on MY 2004 Too many freaks not enough circuses Tell a man that there are 400 billion stars and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint and he has to touch it.

Oct 4th, 2002, 03:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
Davbret MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Portland OR Local Time: 11:37 AM Posts: 115 Offline	Right now you can get an ECU reflash for $750 and intake for about $200. So for under a grand you can boost output to ~180bhp. Go for a more aggressive tune and pay maybe 2-3 times that, but get upwards of 200-220bhp. Why wait for 2 years and spend (undoubtedly) more? R Dark Silver/Black MCS Premium and Cold Packages Space Cloth Homepage and Stereo Mods

Oct 4th, 2002, 04:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
The General MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2002 Local Time: 07:37 PM Posts: 47 Offline	Not too sure myself I am not to sure about this, even although I started the thread and the person told me about the temporary shortage of 17's in the Summer before I read it anywhere, although looking objectively on the situation, it is probably somewhere near to what is going to happen. For sure BMW need to think about updating the MINI within a year or so, especially if the Cooper S is to remain the class leader. There has also been talk in the motoring press that the Chrysler based engine (in all MINIs) will be phased out in preference for something else. But from what I have been reading on this forum (and others) there are still niggling problems regarding build quality that will hopefully eventually be sorted out, and I think the 2004 model year will probably be a big improvement in every sense. BMW know they cannot rest on their laurels, the MINI is great, but I think future variants will be better still. After all the Cooper S chassis can handle more power still. As for us who have bought new MINIs, well, we have all been doing the last stage of vehicle development for BMW - and enjoying it at the same time !! T G.

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Oct 4th, 2002, 04:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
NEMINI NEMINI.org Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 02:37 PM Posts: 7,911 Offline	BMW hasn't even announced 2003 specs yet so I highly doubt any rumours heard about 2004 will be anything but rumours. NEMINI.org, NEMINI.us, NEMINI.info, NYMINI.org

Oct 4th, 2002, 04:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
mini-is-4-me MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CA Local Time: 07:37 PM Posts: 518 Offline	Re: Revamped Cooper S planned I doubt anything changes of significance until at least 2005. I believe the car will sell as is until then. Only when sales/demand starts to dwindle will changes be contemplated. Right now since 2003 is very nearly sold...that seems unlikely. Ok, I've decided: My Car Aimee: Mini "S", Pure Silver/B, Premium (A/C and sun roof), DSC, Fog, and Heated seats. (Why? 'cause I can't wait a year)

Oct 5th, 2002, 12:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
The Ultimate Driver MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Local Time: 02:37 PM Posts: 25 Offline	BMW AG is under contract with D/C to purchase the current engine until 2007. Very doubtful anything will happen before then in regards to the BMW designed, built by Peugeot engine venture. Last edited by The Ultimate Driver : Oct 5th, 2002 at 12:26 PM.

Oct 5th, 2002, 12:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
NEMINI NEMINI.org Join Date: Sep 2002 Local Time: 02:37 PM Posts: 7,911 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by The Ultimate Driver BMW AG is in contract with D/C to purchase the current engine until 2007. Very doubtful anything will happen before then. Could still use the same engine and just tweak and tune it some more, which I do beleive we will see. NEMINI.org, NEMINI.us, NEMINI.info, NYMINI.org

Oct 7th, 2002, 03:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
Kupa MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Windsor, UK Local Time: 07:37 PM Posts: 43 Offline	Yep, too early for the BMW/Peugoet engine. But this upgrade doesn't make sense to me - it would wipe out the market for the S Works upgrade overnight, as who would pay £3500 for 200bhp S Works kit when you get 180bhp in the standard car (for presumably considerably less to avoid getting too much pricier than the CTR). Less sense still when you consider that BMW is helping John Cooper Garages homologate the S Works kit for sale worldwide through their dealer network. Kupa 2002 Cooper S

Oct 7th, 2002, 04:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
pcvillain MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tamworth,Staffs Local Time: 08:37 PM Posts: 145 Offline	I have no insider knowledge of what BMW plan to do with the MINI range. But I know 1 thing for sure and that is a company like BMW will keep on developing year on year. 1stly it wil be cosmetic ie glove box wooden fascia etc. Then when the performance starts to lag compared to competitors the engine will be tweaked. Lets face it we stopped living in caves years ago If they dont evolve they will die PETER Evolve or die

Oct 15th, 2002, 08:20 AM	#12 (permalink)
MiNiGuY MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Local Time: 08:37 PM Posts: 808 Offline	engines Quote: Originally posted by The Ultimate Driver BMW AG is under contract with D/C to purchase the current engine until 2007. Very doubtful anything will happen before then in regards to the BMW designed, built by Peugeot engine venture. D/C have expressed in recent months that they are not particularly happy with the arrangement overall. BMW have equally expressed that they are not happy either. Talks to reach an agreement continue. Last edited by MiNiGuY : Oct 15th, 2002 at 08:26 AM.

Oct 15th, 2002, 08:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
Keith MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SW Florida Local Time: 07:37 PM Posts: 687 Offline	Re: Revamped Cooper S planned Quote: Originally posted by The General I have heard rumours (from an employee of BMW UK) that they plan to revamp the Cooper S for the 2004 model year. Major improvements include 180bhp output (for a claimed sub 6.0 sec dash to 60mph), different wheels and more equipment, plus a higher price! Maybe true, maybe not. Ask your dealer, although they will not probably tell you the truth! I do think, although others may disagree, that the S needs more ooomph to stay ahead of the increasing able competition! This revamp will probably do the trick - but question is what does all this mean of the current S? T G. If 163hp gets the car to 60 in 6.9, my guess it it will take more than 180hp to get under 6 seconds. 180hp is just a 10% increase so a 6.2 second dash sounds more realistic - all other things being equal. That still pretty fast - but can you ever go fast enough? 2007 DS/W MCS LSD, sport suspension, Enkei RPM2 wheels 2002 EB/W MCS Sport package, Rogue intake, Borla exhaust, 15% pulley & Madness sway bar

Oct 15th, 2002, 08:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
Keith MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SW Florida Local Time: 07:37 PM Posts: 687 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Kupa Yep, too early for the BMW/Peugoet engine. But this upgrade doesn't make sense to me - it would wipe out the market for the S Works upgrade overnight, as who would pay £3500 for 200bhp S Works kit when you get 180bhp in the standard car (for presumably considerably less to avoid getting too much pricier than the CTR). Less sense still when you consider that BMW is helping John Cooper Garages homologate the S Works kit for sale worldwide through their dealer network. Here's a thought... could the rumored revamped S and the works S sold through the BMW dealers be the same car? 2007 DS/W MCS LSD, sport suspension, Enkei RPM2 wheels 2002 EB/W MCS Sport package, Rogue intake, Borla exhaust, 15% pulley & Madness sway bar

Oct 16th, 2002, 01:22 AM	#15 (permalink)
Bilbo Baggins MINI2 Master Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Shire, Middle Earth Local Time: 03:37 PM Posts: 8,854 Offline	Changes? How about a real performance MCS? 180 - 200 HP in a no frills body. NO stereo, NO air conditioner, NO electric windows, NO rear seat, factory roll cage, SPARCO seats, 5 point harnesses, you know a real back to basics racer. What do ya think? Motor on, Dudes and Dudettes!!! '06 MCS SB/S '02 MCS DS/W (retired)

Oct 16th, 2002, 02:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
EBMCS03 M5 Extraordinare! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: So Cal Local Time: 12:37 PM Posts: 6,777 Offline	WOW... hummm intersting... I want a 180HP MINI S' but I dont want to wait till 2004!! Davbret: wheres this ECU upgrade for $750? Thats quite a bit for just a ECU upgrade...

Oct 16th, 2002, 04:30 AM	#17 (permalink)
Basil MINI2 Master Join Date: Nov 2001 Local Time: 05:37 AM Posts: 5,956 Offline	Re: engines Quote: Originally posted by MiNiGuY D/C have expressed in recent months that they are not particularly happy with the arrangement overall. BMW have equally expressed that they are not happy either. Good. Hopefully both sides will agree to dump it earlier than planned.

Oct 16th, 2002, 06:37 AM	#18 (permalink)
Leo MINI2 Newbie My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2002 Local Time: 08:37 PM Posts: 45 Offline	Re: Re: Revamped Cooper S planned Quote: Originally posted by Keith If 163hp gets the car to 60 in 6.9, my guess it it will take more than 180hp to get under 6 seconds. 180hp is just a 10% increase so a 6.2 second dash sounds more realistic - all other things being equal. That still pretty fast - but can you ever go fast enough? JCW say that the S Works will do 0-60 in 6.0 . That is with 200bhp so 180 is likely to be slower (although obviously depends on the torque aswell). Also under 6 in a front wheel drive car is going to be v. difficult regardless of how much power you have. My S works is here in Feb

Oct 16th, 2002, 09:27 AM	#19 (permalink)
swamos MINI Traitor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Local Time: 05:37 AM Posts: 5,548 Offline	mini WRC I'm really not sure about all this. I think that once the car starts to approach 200bhp, FWD will have trouble getting the power down. I think we need the mini WRC (4 wheel drive).

Oct 16th, 2002, 09:45 AM	#20 (permalink)
Kupa MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Windsor, UK Local Time: 07:37 PM Posts: 43 Offline	250bhp through front wheels is possible according to Alfa Romeo (147 GTA), although most seem to agree this is towards the limit of what you can put through steering wheels with current technology. BMW knows its stuff, I can't see them having a problem... Kupa 2002 Cooper S

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