[Confused]

Here are two polls:

Overall satisfaction :
http://www.mini2.com/forum/poll.php?...lts&pollid=345

Things gone wrong :
http://www.mini2.com/forum/poll.php?...lts&pollid=348

I've been looking at these polls for a while now, and I try to understand WHY, despite all the things gone wrong with your cars, you all seem satisfied with it.
I know I haven't got my car, but you all paid a lot of money for a little car that should be close to perfect, if not, at least reliable.

So I guess, my question is... How can you be so... (I am trying to find the word in english) Forgiving ???

[Martin L]

Because this is one special car and all it's niggles pale into insignificance when your out driving

You just can't hate something this good

[dsc68]

Because the car is so much fun to drive. I think I would still love this car even if the doors fell off.

A previous thread discussed the relative percentage of Minis with problems. MINI2 is likely to attract more people who have experienced problems relatively than in the total population because it is a forum to raise complaints in. Even so the number of unsatisfied owners is quite small - I'd estimate I've seen less than 10 truely unhappy owners out of over 2000 registered members on MINI2.

There is an expectation that because the Mini is a BMW car it will be as good as every other BMW car. This ignores a couple of things: 1. We don't hang out on BMW boards to get a feeling for the problems experienced by other BMW owners, 2. BMW has been making 3 Series etc for a lot longer than Minis, and 3. The Mini is really an entry level BMW.

This doesn't excuse production faults but it must be said that in the scheme of things they are relatively minor - gas tanks don't explode, tyres don't fail, timing belts don't fail


In my opinion the Mini represents fantastic value in bang for your buck. It has many more features than other cars around the same price range.

[Humourl3ss]

Are Ferraris, or Lamborghinis, or TVRs especially reliable? No. Compared to Toyota Corolla, they are notoriously unreliable, flawed beasts.

Yet those exotics are very desirable cars, whereas the Corolla is what someone buys just so they can get to work, carry groceries home, pick up the kids, etc etc. It's a bland workhorse. You buy it because you have to, not because you want to.

Quality and reliability are only two factors that influence owner satisfaction. Things like looks, handling, acceleration, individuality, character and interior details can mean as much (or more) to a buyer than strict reliability.

And that goes a long way to explaining the dichotomy.

-CW

[realdriver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Humourl3ss
Are Ferraris, or Lamborghinis, or TVRs especially reliable? No. Compared to Toyota Corolla, they are notoriously unreliable, flawed beasts.

Yes, but what do people buy when they have money and actually want to use their car everyday?

A Porsche... Why? because it's reliable and practical

I don't think many people have bought their MCS as a weekend toy

[COOPERation]

But it seems that most of the complaints are for "squeaky seats and rattles". If you decided not to buy this car for those reasons...you shouldn't have considered it anyway.

BTW...I have NO squeaky seats or rattles on my 2002 MCS!

[Humourl3ss]

Quote:

Originally posted by realdriver


Yes, but what do people buy when they have money and actually want to use their car everyday?

A Porsche... Why? because it's reliable and practical

I don't think many people have bought their MCS as a weekend toy

Reread my post.

Not all of us have the bags of money for a Porsche (which, by the way, are not nearly as reliable as some people would like to think... trust me; we've had them in the family)

But we're on a budget and don't want a boring car, so we live with the odd buzz, rattle or squeak.

-CW

[friedduck]

Confused,

Obviously you never hear from the majority of people who have no complaints with their MINI (or few.) I haven't had any trouble with mine. Message boards always attract people looking to solve a problem (understandable) and the problems usually appear to be more prevalant than they actually are.

Don't worry about it. If you look at J.D. Power, you'll realize that even very reliable cars frequently have minor problems that must be fixed by the dealer. The industry average is 133 problems per 100 vehicles after 90 days of ownership. Or basically--an average car would have at least one problem in the first 90 days of ownership.

Jeff

[NYCguy]

Quote:

Obviously you never hear from the majority of people who have no complaints with their MINI (or few.) I haven't had any trouble with mine.

Actually, we just heard from a bunch of people on this thread who don't have complaints about their Mini. I think it's not entirely correct to characterize mini2 as a place for whiners and complainers. This is a bbs for Mini enthusiasts, owners, and prospective owners. As such, I think it's good to have people air complaints and compliments with equal freedom.

I am on the BMW boards and others as well. I would say that Mini2 is remarkably well behaved. You should read some of the crap on the other boards, especially about the 745 model that has an interface co-developed with Microsoft. (Yes, the Windows crashing equivalent is true.)

I think it comes down to expectation vs. reality. BMW is learning that fielding an entry level car with a heritage like Mini and the implied brand promises of BMW is not very easy. If I have a problem with my 740i, it's usually minor and the dealer is both experienced and diligent about fixing the car quickly. I was expecting the same with the Mini but alas, dealers are both unprepared and not as enthusiastic. Chalk it up to a combination of first-year teething pains and lower price.

[Bad Manners]

Quote:

Originally posted by Confused
So I guess, my question is... How can you be so... (I am trying to find the word in english) Forgiving ???

a) MINI is special
b) Most owners have no trouble with MINI

[gromit]

Quote:

Originally posted by Confused
I've been looking at these polls for a while now, and I try to understand WHY, despite all the things gone wrong with your cars, you all seem satisfied with it.
I know I haven't got my car, but you all paid a lot of money for a little car that should be close to perfect, if not, at least reliable.
So I guess, my question is... How can you be so... (I am trying to find the word in english) Forgiving ???

Have you ever been in love? I have. Sometimes the person you love is flawed, imperfect and some days totally aggrivating. Doesn't make you love them any less. MINIs are like that.

Hopefully when you get your MINI, you'll feel the same as many of us do. If you don't feel that way, the resale value is good and you can move on to another car. You won't have to pay child support or alimony to your MINI either.

[Splicer65]

As has been somewhat mentioned. Over 6000 folks registered here. 167 on one poll, 271 on another. No overlap. Two entirely different groups responding to different polls. We need more numbers before anything can be explained.

Paul

[here2help]

Please note that the MINI is not built by BMW,That becomes obvious if you own a BMW....Its pure quality..no squeaky seats,Dash rattles,steering pulls ect...BMW just own the Mini brand..they dont build it! BMW are built in Munich and Dingolffing ECT..NOT OXFORD by ex rover technicians..

[Bad Manners]

Quote:

Originally posted by Splicer65
As has been somewhat mentioned. Over 6000 folks registered here. 167 on one poll, 271 on another. No overlap. Two entirely different groups responding to different polls. We need more numbers before anything can be explained.

Paul

Yes, need more people polling, but I have to take issue with your figure of 6000:
a) not all 6000 registered post or even visit MINI2 anymore
b) not all those who do post even own a MINI, let alone a Cooper S

I would agree that the polls are asking two different things, but not necessarily that the set(s) of people responding are mutually exclusive, eg someone could have had issues with my MINI and still be very satisfied and have posted accordingly in each poll.

Rogerswt did an interesting thing by posting both polls simultaneously. Unfortunately, vBulletin polls - however carefully constructed - won't give you any data to cross-reference. You simply can't draw any meaningful conclusion from both polls.

[Bad Manners]

Quote:

Originally posted by here2help
Please note that the MINI is not built by BMW,That becomes obvious if you own a BMW....Its pure quality..no squeaky seats,Dash rattles,steering pulls ect...BMW just own the Mini brand..they dont build it! BMW are built in Munich and Dingolffing ect..NOT OXFORD by ex rover technicians..

Some BMWs have rattles(not all)
Some MINIs have rattles (not all)

[MiniMill]

Perhaps my ramblings will not apply here but I just have to contribute.

I think the best thing said in this post so far is that sometimes the PERSON you love is aggravating, imperfect, etc. What is also true is that nothing, nothing in this world is perfect. How can we all expect a car to be perfect.
What is great though is that in our minds our Mini's are CLOSE to perfect for many reasons: value, exlcusivity, performance, etc, etc.
I think all of us must realize that in the end our Mini's are cars. Cars are inaminate objects that we lust after but they are just that, objects.
Make your own assumptions, especially after you take delivery. I think everyone will begin to understand why we put up with the little things.
Look at it this way.......think of all the things that aggravate the hell out of you everyday, at work, at home anywhere, but you don't go quitting your job or moving out because of it right?

MiniMill

[mmmini]

Personally I don't see what I'm experiencing as problems that effect the way I feel for my car. Sure she may not start first time, but how much effort is it to turn a key. My drivers seat may occasionally squeek and there is a bit of a creaking noise coming from the back of the car, but in no way does this detract from the pleasure of the car and the overall driving experience. I drive her fairly hard, as would most people who have an S, so would expect a bit of noise from the chassis every so often.

It seems most people in these forums are averaging fairly high km's on fairly demanding roads and are probably pushing their car more than they would push a more mundane car. Drive any new car hard for it's first 10000km's, and your bound to have similar issues to what people are finding with their MINI's.

I think the reason there are so many postings of these issues is that MINI drivers are more likely "car people", as opposed to general consumers who may drive a more sedate Toyota, Mazda, Nissan et al, so tend to pick-up on these little things.

Unfortunately when a car looks and goes as good as this, you can't help but feel that it needs to be perfect in every respect, so will always be picked at, no matter how well it's built.

[LMB]

Because we're all mad.



Mad about the Mini. Just drive one and you'll see why.

[R1]

Quote:

Originally posted by LMB
Because we're all mad.

He's right you know!!

[dsc68]

Quote:

Originally posted by here2help
Please note that the MINI is not built by BMW,That becomes obvious if you own a BMW....Its pure quality..no squeaky seats,Dash rattles,steering pulls ect...BMW just own the Mini brand..they dont build it! BMW are built in Munich and Dingolffing ect..NOT OXFORD by ex rover technicians..

So the BMWs made in South America aren't real BMWs then?