[waynef]

Hi,

Has anyone else experienced a Turbo like "Kick-back" when taking up drive in 1st gear. It is V-E-R-Y annoying and comes after my ECU software was updated the the VERY LATEST version (as of 12th JUNE 2003, ECU version 33.2).

The kick-back or jerk comes whilst pulling away using mild all the way upto hard acceleration, at about 2000rpm. The engine note stops, I'm thrown forward in the seat, then the car revs resume and I am off again.

And no. I haven't put diesel in it

[tip]

Not uncommon. My old MC did this. Do a search on "yo-yo" or "surging" you will find plenty on this subject.

Have fun.

Charles

[happyleaves]

Hi Wayne

Yep, mine does the same as yours but at about 1500-1700rpm. It only does it after i start the car in the morning, reverse off the drive, and as i pull away it does it within 10ft - but only once. And it won't do it again until i start the car the next day.

My Cooper S is only four days old and i thought it just needed running in, but after i spoke to my dealer, they said that they have seen a couple like this!

The power delivery on half throttle is not very smooth either, and twice now, i have started the car only to have it die on me instantly then the restart has taken longer than normal before the engine fires. Could all this be and ECU matter????

Otherwise, apart from a mis-aligned steering wheel, the car is perfect... much better than my old Cooper S that was sent back to the factory after it pretty much fell apart on me!!!

[dco43054]

I'd suggest a search on "stutter" and you will find additional threads.

I had a similar problem early on until I got the feel of the car. Just took me a little more throttle off the line with a different clutch release than former cars. Also, when I trying to launch hard into traffic I had to shut off the ASC so it would shut down the engine trying to keep the wheels from spinning.

There are definitely some threads out there though from folks who seem to have had other problem s related to stutter or power loss.

Dave

[Nic D]

Quote:

Originally posted by happyleaves
twice now, i have started the car only to have it die on me instantly then the restart has taken longer than normal before the engine fires. Could all this be and ECU matter????

Regarding this, have you tried turning the car completly off, removing the key and then restarting? The fuel pump may need to 're-prime' which is leading to the longer than normal restart. Another possible is too give the accelerator a bit of a prod while turning the key.

[waynef]

Quote:

Originally posted by tip
Not uncommon. My old MC did this. Do a search on "yo-yo" or "surging" you will find plenty on this subject.

Have fun.

Charles

Thanks for swift reply Charles,

Unfortunately I am no stranger to the Yo-Yo effect and have had that for a while. It was resolved by replacing the throttle housing and reprogramming the ECU, on that occasion. Sorry about that old chap.

This problem is considerably different the so-called Yo-Yo, in that it's effect is just once: but it's effectively TWICE as powerful, and very, very annoying (one might say a stutter or splutter from the engine but a strong one).

This problem comes at the end of a very long protracted series of problems with my MCS. The ECU software was updated again on it's last visit on 12th JUNE 2003, ECU version 33.2.

Personally, I think the ECU software update this time around has a bug in it. The problem happens everytime you pull away in 1st from stationary. It doesn't go away by priming the throttle, nor does it make any difference how hard or soft the accelerator or clutch is mated. I've been driving my MCS since October 2002, so I can't put it down to technique, this has happened only after the ECU upgrade you see. It's tragically bad.

[happyleaves]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nic D
Regarding this, have you tried turning the car completly off, removing the key and then restarting? The fuel pump may need to 're-prime' which is leading to the longer than normal restart. Another possible is too give the accelerator a bit of a prod while turning the key.

No i haven't tried this Nic, but i'll give it a go if it happens again

[shkeller55]

This is also referred to as the 1st gear "stumble". You can search for "stumble" for related info/rantings on this board and on minicooperonline.com. I just had my ECU software updated to version 3.32 last week and now have the stumble. I get it whether the engine is cold or warmed up, and whether DSC is turned off or on. The only times I don't get it are if I drive away very slowly (like in "creep" mode in a 4WD SUV, for example), or if I take off real fast like when merging into fast traffic (say 50 mph on city streets with another car bearing down on me). In normal driving I get it every time. It's sometimes severe enough to make the nose dive as if under sudden, heavy braking. It's embarassing at minimum, dangerous at maximum with any traffic following closely, and can't be good for the drivetrain.

The car is now back at the dealer and they are waiting to hear from MINIUSA about what to do. Some of us here in the states are planning to seek recourse through lemon laws if this is not fixed quickly. The car's drivability is simply unacceptable as is. I wanted to teach my 16-year-old how to drive it but it's not possible.

[Zulu]

Scott,

I suggest you exercise your rights with the lemon law as it will take around 6 months - if they fix it in that time good - if they don't well you have done the right thing.

Let's face it this inability of Mini to get their cars driving like they should has been going on since they hit the road.

[shkeller55]

After I posted the note above I saw somewhere else on this site that version 33.3 of the ECU software is now out. I'll check with my dealer on it tomorrow and report back here.

If that doesn't fix it I'll go the lemon law route. But geez, what do I do if they buy the car back from me? I don't want to have to give it up, I just want it fixed. But then again, if that's what it takes...

My Mini dealer is almost an hour away. This makes me think that if I'd just bought the Mazda 6 instead, I probably wouldn't have had any problems like this. And if I had, the nearest dealer's only 5 minutes away. And they have free loaners. Why can't Mini get this service stuff right?

[waynef]

Quote:

Originally posted by shkeller55
This is also referred to as the 1st gear "stumble". You can search for "stumble" for related info/rantings on this board and on minicooperonline.com. I just had my ECU software updated to version 3.32 last week and now have the stumble. I get it whether the engine is cold or warmed up, and whether DSC is turned off or on. The only times I don't get it are if I drive away very slowly (like in "creep" mode in a 4WD SUV, for example), or if I take off real fast like when merging into fast traffic (say 50 mph on city streets with another car bearing down on me). In normal driving I get it every time. It's sometimes severe enough to make the nose dive as if under sudden, heavy braking. It's embarassing at minimum, dangerous at maximum with any traffic following closely, and can't be good for the drivetrain.

The car is now back at the dealer and they are waiting to hear from MINIUSA about what to do. Some of us here in the states are planning to seek recourse through lemon laws if this is not fixed quickly. The car's drivability is simply unacceptable as is. I wanted to teach my 16-year-old how to drive it but it's not possible.

Thank you shkeller55,

You have described my problem E-X-A-C-T-L-Y.

Please BMW/MINI, can we have a pre-33.2 version of our ECU software. ECU version 33.2 is causing real problems, in my opinion.

My dealer is due to look into this, but I feel they might struggle. Still love MINI's though. So, so much!

[jstines]

Welcome to the club, Waynef. I'm sorry about your car. I too have the severe stumble/hiccup in first, but I've had it since day one (Apr 2003 build). It's extremely annoying. Version 33.3 sounds promising, so I hope that will be a good fix.

Waynef, did you notice after the upgrade to 33.2 if your exhaust note changed...slightly deeper, more of a drone at ~3000 rpms?

See ya,
JS

[vespa]

Wow. That's a big font.

Anyway, the problem is not due to software 33.2 -- that version actually fixes the trouble for some folks. My MCS arrived with 32.0 and stumbled from day one. When I took it in for service 2 weeks ago they upgraded the software but had no idea what version they applied. Still stumbles just the same.

If you notice, the computer won't activate the stumble when the car is turning or in reverse. So if you must drive forward, just swerve violently as you complete the clutch engagement and you'll be fine.

[jstines]

Quote:

Originally posted by vespa
Wow. That's a big font.

If you notice, the computer won't activate the stumble when the car is turning or in reverse. So if you must drive forward, just swerve violently as you complete the clutch engagement and you'll be fine.

I haven't noticed that. Guess I'll try that going out of the parking lot, today.

See ya,
JS

[shkeller55]

Just got my car back from the dealer. They talked with an engineer at BMW in NJ, who said there is no version 33.3 out yet. They don't have a fix yet but are working on it. The dealer sounded as if it'll be some weeks before we get it, as first they have to develop the fix, then (in the US) get it approved by the DOT, then get it out to the dealers, then to the customers.

They said the only thing they can do for now is send my ECU to NJ and have it programmed back to the previous version. I would have taken them up on that but it would take at least 5 days and I'm taking the car out of town Saturday.

I'll check with them when I get back in town. In the meantime I'll keep monitoring this forum.

[Dark Silver S]

That momentary gulp is not a problem. Rev up to 4000 and pep the clutch. Takes off smartly then. Oh. In traffic? That's when you add the swerve.

[jstines]

Just a curious thought here. Those of us having the stumble/hiccup in first, have you also experienced the faulty blinking cruise control (it blinks and then goes off but will not engage)? I understand there is a diode fix for that...it's caused by leaking voltage tricking the cruise into thinking the brakes are being applied. I wonder if the hiccup/stumble in first could somehow be related. If the engine mgmt thought the brakes were being applied, it could quickly kill the throttle. Probably not...just speculating. I sure wish they'd get it fixed, though. I have heard that some of the problem in quickly turning out a solution is that each software revision must be approved by the EPA. I don't know if that's correct, but it sounds reasonable.
See ya,
JS

[Nic D]

JS, nope the blinking cruise light isnt related at all. My cruise wouldnt engage to start with but i didnt notice any difference in driving.

[jstines]

Thanks, Nic D. Strike that one off, then.

See ya,
JS

[shkeller55]

I've never tried to use my cruise control (but I've only had the car a few weeks). Maybe I will try it this weekend when we drive to Florida.