[duvinclunk]

ok well im in the market for a new car in the near future. i currently drive a 1991 mr2 turbo but i would like something a bit newer with a warranty and such. well ive always wanted a mini cooper. heres my only concern---im not gonna be satisfied with the power output. i apologize because i may be wrong, but a sohc supercharged engine would be quick but not quick enough for me. are there any high horsepower mcs'? im going to be modding mine quite a bit and was wondering what kinda of power people can get out of these cars. are there any supercharger upgrades? i run high 13's in my car at the track and i would eventually like to get faster than that in whatever car i get. so is the mcs capible of making such power? please help me out with any info or facts that could help me out in my search. THANKS A LOT!

(p.s. the other cars that i am looking into are the 20th anniversary edition 1.8t gti, honda s2000, maybe wrx as well...)

[RickB]

The Dealer-installed John Cooper Works kit (~$6000) bumps horsepower to 200. You can get that, using properly-matched aftermarket components, for less than $2000. When I had the supercharger reduction pulley and cold air intake installed on my Cooper S ($665 for 20-25hp), there was a fairly extensively modified JCW-equipped Cooper S on the dyno, and I think he was getting abut 230hp. There are aftermarket kits that claim 250hp or more.
If you are looking for straight-line acceleration, you should probably look elsewhere; the Cooper S is plenty quick, but it's not a drag-racer. Even heavily modded, it probably couldn't match a stock WRX STi in a straight line. On a road course, it's a different story; more than one person on this forum has left a WRX for dead.
Of course, any modding you do can/will void the warranty.

[Theo]

Quote: Originally Posted by RickB

{snip}...If you are looking for straight-line acceleration, you should probably look elsewhere;...{snip}

...but if you're into carrying more speed into corners and putting down the power earlier through the exit; then the MCS is for you. Thus, the MCS is not a drag racer, it is a road racer. Should be even better in '05 with the JCW kit AND LSD.

My tuppence,

Theo

[Barrold]

I'm on my 2nd mini, the 1st stock Cooper S 2003 with 16" wheels , the 2nd and JC Works 2004. First thing to say is, you're not going to be disappointed with the performance (compared to a 91 what?), with a John Cooper Works version of the Mini. The thing is truly wondrous, I'm no journalist but this recent review from Autoweek is really close to my 'owner experience' ( minus the "open country roads" thing... I'd still be in 2nd gear). Also, good advice re the $. Read on, it's all true.................

"The JCW Cooper feels only marginally different to the standard Cooper S in urban crawl. Its exhaust note is slightly raspier—a pleasing “bup-bup-bup” on the overrun—and the supercharger’s whine marginally more nasal. The throttle response—already attack-dog keen on the S—is sharper still. Other than that, you’ll wonder if the hole in your account has been worth it.

That is until you get onto empty country roads where this Super Cooper’s case improves dramatically. In the middle of the rev counter, a fat seam of can-do torque makes for serious, any-gear overtaking punch (bringing to mind the ’60s British bumper sticker: “You’ve Been Mini’d!”).

At the top quarter of the rev range the JCW is better yet, losing the standard S’s slight breathlessness. Acceleration has an addictive exponential feel: it pulls harder and harder all the way to redline. With the quick shift of the six-speed transmission lending support and the supercharger’s charismatic wail shouting encouragement, it’s not long before you’ve hit 100 mph—and the very real prospect of a night in the gray bar hotel.

The standard chassis bits are more than up to handling the 37 extra horses. Torque steer isn’t an issue, certainly without ridiculous first or second gear acceleration over big bumps. The extra power helps to balance the chassis on faster corners if you adopt the age-old front-drive technique of fast-in, fast-out: throw it in at an optimistic speed, accelerate until the front starts to nudge wide and then throttle back into a big, fat zone of exploitable neutrality. It would be an exceptionally well-driven Porsche Boxster that manages to pull ground over the Works S through a sequence of bends.

That’s a key to understanding here. Sure, with a couple of well-chosen options the JCW-equipped Cooper S will push $30,000, serious green for a dinky sub-subcompact. But for a Boxster-baiting, German engineered sports coupe massaged by one of the most highly regarded tuners in the world? It’s almost a bargain.

[kapps]

How much HP is your turbo mr2 putting out? My friend has one a little older than yours and we both can tell the MCS has the power on the mr2. The JCW kit will surely satisfy your power needs if the regular S doesn't. And just to let you know, the S can run circles around the mr2 in the corners.

[jblow]

I owned a '91 MR2 Turbo years ago (as well as an '87 supercharged MR2) - a great car. While the MCS is not as powerful or quick as the turbo, it is an absolute blast to drive and in stock form handles better. There are a lot of alternatives to enhance the performance of the MCS, to begin with think about the options listing when ordering. I'm in the camp of dumping the 17" S-lite sport pkg alloys for 16" and non-runflats - having just completed this mod, I can attest to the fact that this is a big step in the right direction performance-wise. Aftermarket options abound - I've driven a pulleyed MCS and the surge of power actually reminded me of the old MR2. Granted, the MCS powerplant isn't going to go as far in terms of power as the Toyota motor when fully modded out - it suffers from smaller displacement and as you noted a single cam. Other things to consider would be overall vehicle weight.

Advice would be to head down to the local MINI dealer and take one for a "real" test drive. Good luck.

FWIW, if you're looking for a 1/4 mile car (as mentioned in the posting), keep looking as the MINI performance is not about acceleration - it's all about the handling

[Johnny225]

MINI Mania Stage 3, 245 bhp for $5,000. 0-60 in 5.9 secs.

[duvinclunk]

thank you everyone for your help. i understand that the mcs isnt a "drag car" and what not i just dont want to be dissappointed if there is a lack of power when i wanna get up and going. thanks for all the help and keep the facts comin'!

Quote: Originally Posted by kapps

How much HP is your turbo mr2 putting out? My friend has one a little older than yours and we both can tell the MCS has the power on the mr2. The JCW kit will surely satisfy your power needs if the regular S doesn't. And just to let you know, the S can run circles around the mr2 in the corners.

i should be putting down about 200hp to the wheels. the earlier mr2's (earlier than 91) are a different engine and didnt come in turbo. they did have a supercharged model but doesnt compare the the mkII's turbo. i bet it would handle better hehe

[duvinclunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by Johnny225

MINI Mania Stage 3, 245 bhp for $5,000. 0-60 in 5.9 secs.

i think 245hp in a mini would be plenty

i heard about a 275hp kit for the mcs! is this true? if so how much does this kit run?

[RickB]

The guy who did my pulley install, Randy Webb, has a MINI parts/installation business, and he's familiar wth most of the bits on the market. He tests and races the parts on his own car, and you can read a lot of his findings at his website. webbmotorsports.com
He said, more than once, while installing pulleys and chips on customer's cars, that "the car is no fun to drive" with more than 230hp. I'm plenty happy with my 180-185, but I guess ten more would be OK . . .

[duvinclunk]

hmmm i wonder what his reasoning behind saying 235hp and over isnt fun in the mini...

i just dont see how a 275hp mini wouldnt be fun

[Theo]

Quote: Originally Posted by duvinclunk

hmmm i wonder what his reasoning behind saying 235hp and over isnt fun in the mini...

i just dont see how a 275hp mini wouldnt be fun

I would guess that the power is non-linear and, thus, quite a bit to handle toward peak torque. Also, for THAT power on a FWD car, you definitely need LSD to prevent too much rubber from melting.

Remember also that for a FWD car, accelerating unloads weight on the (front) driving wheels of the car...NOT the thing you want to happen for traction with a high HP setup...even WITH LSD! Add to the equation the fact that, unlike a RWD car, the drive wheels also steer the car and...Yipes!

That being said, I'd be the first test pilot in line...

Theo

[gone_motoring]

Quote: Originally Posted by kapps

How much HP is your turbo mr2 putting out? My friend has one a little older than yours and we both can tell the MCS has the power on the mr2. The JCW kit will surely satisfy your power needs if the regular S doesn't. And just to let you know, the S can run circles around the mr2 in the corners.

been told that the turbo mr2 did 0-60 in around 6 secs, so definitely would have to go with JCW to be on par.

[duvinclunk]

yeah i understand about the whole torque thing and the wheels braking loose and whatever. a lot of my friends have high horsepower hondas that are just like that. i actually have a friend with a built turbo integra that just dynoed in at 406hp and he breaks the wheels loose soooo easy and i really dont find it a problem if you know how to control it or how to make not loose that traction (for example not just slamming on the gas.)

Quote: Originally Posted by itsnotsizethatmatr

been told that the turbo mr2 did 0-60 in around 6 secs, so definitely would have to go with JCW to be on par.

hopefully my car runs a little faster than that with my mods ive heard from people that the jcw package is not worth the money. you could make that power through other kits and parts for less money. true?

[Theo]

Quote: Originally Posted by duvinclunk

{snip} ... ive heard from people that the jcw package is not worth the money. you could make that power through other kits and parts for less money. true?

True. A JCW kit with labor will be in the high $5,000 (USD) range, at least here in the Northeast. By contrast, an intake, 15% pulley, exhaust and ECU remap package from Webb Motorsports (highly recommended) might be a shade over $2,000.

... BUT ...

With the JCW kit, you leave no question about your MCS being covered under MINI warranty in the event of a failure. With other kits, you leave the warranty question open and, in the event of a failure which MINI can prove is a direct result of a non-oem part, you are S.O.L. Bear in mind that just installing the aftermarket parts does not void your warranty in the U.S. You are covered under the Magnuson-Moss Act.

To quote from the MINI2 F.A.Q.:

In the US, vehicle owners' warranty rights are protected by the Magnuson-Moss Act. A dealer must prove – not just say – that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before he can deny warranty coverage on that basis. If you are unfairly denied warranty coverage, you can file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, which administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty issues.

However, there are a number of folks who feel that the extra $3,800 is worth the peace of mind and also feel that the JCW upgrade is more in keeping with the "spiritual" heritage of the MINI. For them, the JCW package IS well worth the cost.

FWIW,

Theo

[duvinclunk]

thanks a lot theo. what does the jcw kit include?

[Smurfn]

Quote: Originally Posted by duvinclunk

thanks a lot theo. what does the jcw kit include?

You can check their site

http://www.johncooper.co.uk/JohnCoop...me/default.asp

I thought they were doing a 260 hp kit, but I couldn't find it on the site, check the performance forum

[duvinclunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by smurfn

You can check their site

http://www.johncooper.co.uk/JohnCoop...me/default.asp

I thought they were doing a 260 hp kit, but I couldn't find it on the site, check the performance forum

awesome thanks alot!

what is the msrp on the mcs?

(sorry for all the stupid questions! but you guys really know your stuff and are a great help! )

[Smurfn]

Quote: Originally Posted by duvinclunk

awesome thanks alot!

what is the msrp on the mcs?

(sorry for all the stupid questions! but you guys really know your stuff and are a great help! )

Sorry, don't know that for the US. Try www.miniusa.com MSRP $20,449

[ScottyB]

Quote: Originally Posted by smurfn

You can check their site

http://www.johncooper.co.uk/JohnCoop...me/default.asp

I thought they were doing a 260 hp kit, but I couldn't find it on the site, check the performance forum

They took the kits down cause they were receiving way too many inquiries to deal with.

Word is both kits will be a JCW factory fit install only (i.e. not available from your BMW dealer).

The 265hp kit might only be a motorsport conversion. It will be quite expensive, as it is a full rebuild/replacement of engine parts/gearbox etc.