[missMuffin]

Hi there,

I would like to extend an invitiation to all owners and MCS enthusiastic who can guide the newbies(like me ) on buying a MCS. Probably areas like:

What kind of research should we do before buying?
What should we consider (other than cost, color, )?
If we are thinking of buying 2nd hand MCS, what to check and look out for (mechanically wise) ?

More importantly, how do we maximise the little devil? i don't want to be just driving it like an ordinary car....

Feel free to provide links, URLs of other websites for Newbies to refer to. I'm sure your information and knowledge shared will be greatly appreciated by all newcomers to MCS.

thanks in advance

Ps: i hope i posted in the right forum category.

[justbob]

Excellent way of posing the question. I'm sure you'll get a lot of information.

I seperate all of the possible options into two groups: Comfort and Performance.

Comfort options are a personal judgement call, because we each define comfort in different ways. Just remember that comfort options have weight, and weight is the nemesis of performance. My MCS has absolutely no comfort options--none, nada, zero, zip--yet I still find it quite comfortable. No sunroof, no extra CD changer. I even asked the MINI dealers if they could take out the power windows and locks--I was looking for light weight. That's just me.

My wife's MCS has every comfort option known to MINIkind, and you can really tell the difference when you drive both of them--mine is more like a barely broken mustang while hers is a well behaved but sprightly and plump stable horse. My wife, btw, does not find my car "comfortable."

So, Comfort is very much in the thighs of the beholder--do you really need heated seats?

Performance options are quantifiable, i.e., if you get these options you will be able to measure a difference in the performance of the car. My car has all the performance options that were available when I bought it, or that I knew about at the time. The only things I avoided were the CooperWorks engine mods, which I didn't think I'd need and couldn't justify on a cost basis (and I can add a piece at a time from the aftermarket after my warranty wears out....).

So, from a Performance perspective (and there are lots of threads on this) here's what you need to consider:

Engine mods.
Suspension packages.
Wheel size and weight.
Tire size and type.
LSD?
Hidden Performance Options (like front and rear foglights, that let you drive faster at night and brake faster in fog-enshrouded traffic)

There are a lot of details within each of these broad categories, but some follow others, such as if you get the Sports package, you automatically get larger, heavier wheels and tires, and a different range of wheels and tires may be available as replacements. Smaller wheels and tires may make for better low speed handling and a more comfortable ride, but larger wheels and tires give you a bigger footprint and better high-speed stability. So it's all trade offs.

From an engineering perspective there are two factors you should use in making these decisions: requirements and budget. First decide what your requirements are for your MINI (pure go-fast machine or boulevard cruiser?) then set more specific requirements within those general requirements. Priortize requirements, cost them, see what your budget allows and then cut from the bottom up.

Whatever you do, any MINI is a total hoot--even a barebones MC is a joy to drive, so you can't go far wrong in any direction!

Good luck!

[Lanfear]

Welcome to MINI2!

I think that the best thing you can do to get you started is to take one for a test drive. Then take another, and another. Look at everything inside the car, feel how it drives, sit in the back, move the seats around, etc. Once you have that under your belt, it makes understanding the tips you will get from the experts here much more meaningful.

As justbob said, comfort is in the thighs of the beholder. I would probably die without my heated sport seats, rain sensor, heated windshield, and especially my sunroof. However, some people don't like the sport seats, don't feel that a rain sensor is actually useful (so did I until I used them for the first time in a torrential downpour). They also may think that a heated windshield is just going to be a pain in the butt whenever it gets cracked, and that a sunroof doesn't do much good old windows can't do, etc.

Some of the comfort options detract from performance as well, such as the sunroof adding extra weight. Some people may consider a convertible top to be a comfort option, but they make the car much heavier and change the feel of the car. Therefore, the car is a bit slower due to the extra reinforcements that had to be made to the chassis to keep the car rigid. If you want it and you don't care if it makes your car a couple of tenths of a second, go for it.

If you are buying a used MCS, aside from what was already said, find out whether any mods could potentially affect the warranty. Most won't unless it can be proven that the mod caused the failure, but it's best to be safe. Some companies that install mods have their own warranty, so that if MINI refuses to cover you under warranty, the mod company will foot the bill instead.

What else ... drive one, drive another, drive again, drive more. I probably went on 10 test drives and four autocross style laps, before I purchased one. It was so much easier to talk to people on the forums once I understood exactly what they were praising or complaining about.

Good luck to you! If I can think of anything that would be useful, I'll be sure to post when I'm not falling asleep like I am now!

[missMuffin]

Dear JustBob and Lanfear,

thank you so much for taking time to reply to me. i appreciate your effort and kindness.

True enough as what Lanfear has mention, alot of mechanical terms and jargons are still very foreign to me (thus not been able to fully appreciate and understand what other fellow mini drivers are refering to). In fact, i have never own a car before, never bought one before, therefore i'm still quite a "car-idiot". I fall in love with minis the moment i saw them and i want them to be my 1st car. Financial reasons are pretty much an obstacle to my purchase and of cos, the lack of knowledge in cars/minis. i don't want my car to be just "another accessory".

I guess for now, performance is not on my list as i'm not into some kind of motor racing or speeding. Comfort will probably be the highlight. I would very much love to regard my mini as "2nd home".

JustBob, you have mentioned this in your reply, i have some questions in red
Engine mods. Err....what is mod?
Suspension packages. Does suspension makes the car goes lower?
Wheel size and weight.
Tire size and type.
LSD? Opps...what does LSD mean?

i think i have just shown my true self - "Cars for Dummies"

[everythingsablur]

Quote: Originally Posted by missMuffin

JustBob, you have mentioned this in your reply, i have some questions in red
Engine mods. Err....what is mod?
Suspension packages. Does suspension makes the car goes lower?
Wheel size and weight.
Tire size and type.
LSD? Opps...what does LSD mean?

Hehehe... Ok, we'll start slow.
"Engine mod" = Engine modification. As in changing specific parts of the engine to increase performance. This can be as simple as changing to better air filters and intakes (helps the car breathe better) to changing fuel injectors and cam shafts. Not for the newbie faint of heart.

Suspension packages could lower your car, if that's what you wanted. You could do a lot of things with the suspension to make the car handle and feel more the way you want it to. You could make it stiffer or softer. taller or lower. Sadly, most people just think of suspension as you did and just lower the car for looks without considering the other changes that are going to happen to the vehicles dynamics.

LSD = Limited-Slip Differential. This is now a factory installed option on the MCS (only on the manual). If the car detects wheel slip at one of the two drive wheels, it will "lock" and shunt power to the other wheel which still has traction. This is primarily going to occur in high-speed cornering where the inside wheel doesn't need to spin as much as the outside wheel. With normal 50/50 split, that means the inside wheel is turning more than it needs to while the outside (which has farther to travel to get around the corner) isn't turning enough. LSD will correct that. Granted, in day-to-day driving, you probably don't need the LSD unless you drive the car quite aggressively or on mixed road conditions where you might get different traction levels on either side of the car. But considering it's only $500 (depending on what country you're in) vs. $1500-2000 to have one installed aftermarket, it could be a good investment.

[missMuffin]

Quote: Originally Posted by everythingsablur

Hehehe... Ok, we'll start slow.
"Engine mod" = Engine modification. As in changing specific parts of the engine to increase performance. This can be as simple as changing to better air filters and intakes (helps the car breathe better) to changing fuel injectors and cam shafts. Not for the newbie faint of heart.

Suspension packages could lower your car, if that's what you wanted. You could do a lot of things with the suspension to make the car handle and feel more the way you want it to. You could make it stiffer or softer. taller or lower. Sadly, most people just think of suspension as you did and just lower the car for looks without considering the other changes that are going to happen to the vehicles dynamics.

LSD = Limited-Slip Differential. This is now a factory installed option on the MCS (only on the manual). If the car detects wheel slip at one of the two drive wheels, it will "lock" and shunt power to the other wheel which still has traction. This is primarily going to occur in high-speed cornering where the inside wheel doesn't need to spin as much as the outside wheel. With normal 50/50 split, that means the inside wheel is turning more than it needs to while the outside (which has farther to travel to get around the corner) isn't turning enough. LSD will correct that. Granted, in day-to-day driving, you probably don't need the LSD unless you drive the car quite aggressively or on mixed road conditions where you might get different traction levels on either side of the car. But considering it's only $500 (depending on what country you're in) vs. $1500-2000 to have one installed aftermarket, it could be a good investment.

Hello there!! what an impressive writeup....it got my blood pumping for more...i'm really eager to read up more on these mechanism.i have seen the mini done wonders on curves, is it because of the LSD or it is already built that way?

When we purchase a MCS from BMW, what is the basic performance or comfort features that comes with it?

Newbie on the road to learning..........

[missMuffin]

here's an "interesting" blog something to share - off the record....

http://tulipstory.blogspot.com/2005/08/funeral.html

[justbob]

I see some of the other experts have already chimed in with excellent answers, so here are just a couple of add-on notes:

Engine mods. Err....what is mod?

As said, a modification to the stock engine. I've kept my competely stock, because it has enough power for me as it came from the factory; also the Cooperworks package cost quite a bit. After I leave warranty, I'll probably add some cold air intake/filter mods, among other.

Suspension packages. Does suspension makes the car goes lower?

It can make it lower, which will lower the cars center of gravity--and that's good for handling. In the case of the MCS, however, it's about as low as it can go. I'm thinking about stiffer springs/shocks (the bouncy part) and thicker anti-sway bars (these keep your car from tilting when you turn). The stiffer all of these are, the better the car handles but the rougher it rides. If you get the sport package you'll probably be good to go.

Wheel size and weight.
Tire size and type.

Lightweight is good, but you also need footprint size (the surface area of the tire that actually touches the road all the time). Smaller wheels and tires are lighter, larger wheels and tires have a bigger footprint and look better. Again, Sports package fixes you up pretty well. You can pay extra for the same size wheels that are lighter in weight.

LSD? Opps...what does LSD mean?

Great explanation above. I don't have an LSD because it wasn't offered in 2004. I'm actually considering trading my 04 MCS in on an 06 just to get this installed in the factory. Like the man says, for $500, it's almost the bargain of the century.

Once thing you might want to do is go to How Stuff Works, and just sort of surf around. It's a great site with as much technical information as you could want or need, starting at the simple and going to the complex:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/

You may also want to surf the Car and Driver web site. You can even do a search on MINI there. They also have a great glossary of automotive terms:

http://www.caranddriver.com/

If anything else comes up, feel free to ask!

[missMuffin]

Quote: Originally Posted by justbob

I see some of the other experts have already chimed in with excellent answers, so here are just a couple of add-on notes:

Engine mods. Err....what is mod?

As said, a modification to the stock engine. I've kept my competely stock, because it has enough power for me as it came from the factory; also the Cooperworks package cost quite a bit. After I leave warranty, I'll probably add some cold air intake/filter mods, among other.

Suspension packages. Does suspension makes the car goes lower?

It can make it lower, which will lower the cars center of gravity--and that's good for handling. In the case of the MCS, however, it's about as low as it can go. I'm thinking about stiffer springs/shocks (the bouncy part) and thicker anti-sway bars (these keep your car from tilting when you turn). The stiffer all of these are, the better the car handles but the rougher it rides. If you get the sport package you'll probably be good to go.

Wheel size and weight.
Tire size and type.

Lightweight is good, but you also need footprint size (the surface area of the tire that actually touches the road all the time). Smaller wheels and tires are lighter, larger wheels and tires have a bigger footprint and look better. Again, Sports package fixes you up pretty well. You can pay extra for the same size wheels that are lighter in weight.

LSD? Opps...what does LSD mean?

Great explanation above. I don't have an LSD because it wasn't offered in 2004. I'm actually considering trading my 04 MCS in on an 06 just to get this installed in the factory. Like the man says, for $500, it's almost the bargain of the century.

Once thing you might want to do is go to How Stuff Works, and just sort of surf around. It's a great site with as much technical information as you could want or need, starting at the simple and going to the complex:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/

You may also want to surf the Car and Driver web site. You can even do a search on MINI there. They also have a great glossary of automotive terms:

http://www.caranddriver.com/

If anything else comes up, feel free to ask!

Thanks again justBob, for the wonderful information....I hope this thread can be maintain and keep up. It could become a learning thread for all Mini Newbie As you can see, all the personal experiences and information provided here are very valuable.

Its interesting that you mention about the Sports package, doesn't it comes with the basic feature of the MCS(since its Sports)? So what do we get in the basic MCS? every make is different in every year i suppose? like 2002 will be different from 2004?

Also, regarding suspension....since it makes the car lower, it should provide more stability? there was once when i sat in my colleague's car and it went over a hump, and the backseat was bouncing away.....so another colleague commented that the supension has "problem".....

i will definately visit the 2 websites you provided me.....thanks.

[missMuffin]

Hi all experience MCS drivers....

i always wonder how does a MCS does it bend/curve so well and beautifully. Especially those very curvy "S" roads...

Say, if you are doing a "S" road, when approaching the bend, is there a need to apply brake and slow down?

If you don't slow down, how does one control the car in the bend without letting it tilt over , inwards, outwards (due to CG)?

Or is it inbuild in the MCS that it always does this function quite perfectly?

I have never drove a MCS on such roads....but i have gone for drives on such road and I LOVE IT!!!! i want to be able to do it myself without any fear

[justbob]

Quote: Originally Posted by missMuffin

Hi all experience MCS drivers....

i always wonder how does a MCS does it bend/curve so well and beautifully. Especially those very curvy "S" roads...

Say, if you are doing a "S" road, when approaching the bend, is there a need to apply brake and slow down?

If you don't slow down, how does one control the car in the bend without letting it tilt over , inwards, outwards (due to CG)?

Or is it inbuild in the MCS that it always does this function quite perfectly?

I have never drove a MCS on such roads....but i have gone for drives on such road and I LOVE IT!!!! i want to be able to do it myself without any fear

You've posed some more excellent questions, which point out many of the key features of the MINI, and the MCS in particular.

The MINI, unlike most cars, has the wheels at all four corners; that is, there is very little "overhang" on the car, the part that extends beyond the wheels in the front and back. This ensures that the car has the widest stance and longest wheelbase available for its length, and thus increases stability.

The MINI has four wheel independant suspension. This means that each wheel can move up or down whenever it needs to, so they stay on the road all the time, which means you maintain traction and so you can corner, even on bumpy roads.

The MIINI, and the MCS in particular, has a very stiff suspension. This means that the springs and torsional surfaces are very strong, the shock absorbers used operate at high pressure, and the "anti-sway" bars that stretch across the bottom of the car are thick and do not twist or bend easily. THE GOOD NEWS is that this keeps all of the wheels on the ground, and the car body does not roll at all when you corner--excellent for handling. THE BAD NEWS is this makes for a stiffer ride--some think more uncomfortable. MORE GOOD NEWS--you can feel the road while driver and adjust your course accordingly.

One way to check out the stiffness of the suspension of a car is to stand at its side and push on the roof. If the car doesn't move, it probably handles well. If it rocks from side to side, don't exceed the speed limit. There's a great scene in "The Italian Job" when wrench does this when he first sees the MINIs--my kids laughed and said, "Dad, you always do that!"

Another good test is to push down on the front or the back bumper of the car; if it bounces up and down, you know you are going to be floating down the road until you hit a curve, and then you will be out in a cow pasture--the shock absorbers are weak or worn out. You'll notice if you do this to a MINI it hardly moves at all. Try this on the car you have now, or a friends.

Well, more later, gotta go. Hope this helps.

[justbob]

Oh, and in general, brake or slow as you approach the turn from the outside, cut into the turn while you accelerate, then swing wide as you exit the turn.

There's a bit more to it than that, but that's the basics. Try it in any car, traffic permitting. Don't brake in the turn or let off of the throttle, at least most of the time!

More later! Wear your seatbelt!

[missMuffin]

Quote: Originally Posted by justbob

You've posed some more excellent questions, which point out many of the key features of the MINI, and the MCS in particular.

The MINI, unlike most cars, has the wheels at all four corners; that is, there is very little "overhang" on the car, the part that extends beyond the wheels in the front and back. This ensures that the car has the widest stance and longest wheelbase available for its length, and thus increases stability.

The MINI has four wheel independant suspension. This means that each wheel can move up or down whenever it needs to, so they stay on the road all the time, which means you maintain traction and so you can corner, even on bumpy roads.

The MIINI, and the MCS in particular, has a very stiff suspension. This means that the springs and torsional surfaces are very strong, the shock absorbers used operate at high pressure, and the "anti-sway" bars that stretch across the bottom of the car are thick and do not twist or bend easily. THE GOOD NEWS is that this keeps all of the wheels on the ground, and the car body does not roll at all when you corner--excellent for handling. THE BAD NEWS is this makes for a stiffer ride--some think more uncomfortable. MORE GOOD NEWS--you can feel the road while driver and adjust your course accordingly.

One way to check out the stiffness of the suspension of a car is to stand at its side and push on the roof. If the car doesn't move, it probably handles well. If it rocks from side to side, don't exceed the speed limit. There's a great scene in "The Italian Job" when wrench does this when he first sees the MINIs--my kids laughed and said, "Dad, you always do that!"

Another good test is to push down on the front or the back bumper of the car; if it bounces up and down, you know you are going to be floating down the road until you hit a curve, and then you will be out in a cow pasture--the shock absorbers are weak or worn out. You'll notice if you do this to a MINI it hardly moves at all. Try this on the car you have now, or a friends.

Well, more later, gotta go. Hope this helps.

Wow Bob....i'm begining to suspect are you a Mini Mechanic or a Mini Salesman...haha...you really REALLY know your stuff very well. i'm really very impressed.

Does every MCS comes with a "anit-sway" bar?

you know...those newbies who miss out this thread don't know what they have miss

[missMuffin]

Quote: Originally Posted by justbob

Oh, and in general, brake or slow as you approach the turn from the outside, cut into the turn while you accelerate, then swing wide as you exit the turn.

There's a bit more to it than that, but that's the basics. Try it in any car, traffic permitting. Don't brake in the turn or let off of the throttle, at least most of the time!

More later! Wear your seatbelt!

you mean slow down as i approach the turn...then maintain the speed and then swing wide on the wheel as i exit the turn? takes a lot of practice to conquer a turn well.

[justbob]

Driving is a lot of fun, and an interesting exercise, both from a physical and mental point of view. One thing I tell people when they are learning to drive, is that there are those who are operating a vehicle, and those who are driving. The difference is that the former class of people are IN the car, going from point A to point B; the latter class of people (which is a much lower percentage of the population) are the car--they are "wearing" it--the car and the driver become one.

I realize this sounds somewhat existential or Zen-like, but it is very true. If you ever get a chance to meet a fighter pilot, ask him how he feels when he is flying. Invariably they will tell you (and by the way, I don't mean anything by saying "he," my daughter is an Air Force cadet in flight training who would like to pilot a Space Shuttle one day) that they are not flying a plane, they are simply flying. The plane is immaterial.

The same holds true with a MINI. You are no longer driving a car, you are just driving. The car is immaterial.

That said, there is an intellectual side to all of this, and an understanding of the physics of an automobiles interaction with the universe is in order. Sounds complicated, but it's not, really. The MINI manual actually mentions this. So, two pieces of advice:

1. Take a driving course. This is not Driver's Ed. from high school, this is the real deal. You learn how cars work, from the tires to the rooftop, and you get to drive on a real Race Track--it's a total hoot and a great learning experience. This costs about $200 a day, depending where you go, and is well worth it. An instructor rides with you, and you get to go 120 mph. Check with local road racing organizations for when you can go. I do this every couple of years just to stay current.

2. Read up a bit. There are several good books and many great websites that cover driving techniques, like how to take a curve. I'll send you some links, but if you get a chance, Bob Bondurant has a great book on how to drive in real world situations. You can get it at amazon.com. Gain an understanding of understeer and oversteer--both of which are present in the MINI.

I'm glad all of this information has been of value to you, but I have to say I do not work for MINI or for any other car company, and I'm just an amateur--I commute to work everyday and occasionally go to the track to scare myself. I do find all of this interesting, however, and a heck of a lot of fun. I've owned a lot of cars over the years, and driven high-end performance cars such as Corvettes and and Porsches, but for sheer fun, day in and day out, you can't beat an MCS.


More later, but gotta go now. Have a good weekend!

[missMuffin]

hi Bob, your paragraph is a REAL SPOT ON !!! you can't beat an MCS.[i][b]

i totally understand what you mean by you become one with the car, although i had never driven a MCS but i had been cruising in the passenger seat many times on bends and curves. And i felt like i'm part of the car. It will definately feel much better if i'm the driver.

I had been visiting the 2 websites that you provide me on and off....slowly picking up my automobile knowledge

And Geez....i'm amazed that your daughter is in air force flight training, it must be aweson to be up there so often.