[aoh]

Got a couple of questions about the suspension on the Cooper:

1. Is it possible to visually differentiate between the standard sports and sports plus suspension ? If not, how can you tell what's fitted on the car ?

2. Anyone out there who have tried both ? Comments on performance differences ?

Thanks...

[homerweena]

Apparently the anti-roll bars are slightly thicker for Plus. I have driven both and didn't notice any difference in ride to be honest. Bear in mind that Plus is only 10% firmer than standard sport suspension on the Cooper. I have Plus on my car and the ride can be pretty harsh on poor roads but I've learnt to live with it.

[plake]

My MC has the sports suspension plus, but I test drove a car with the standard suspension (both had 16" wheels) and thought the standard was a bit soggy in quick (>60mph) corners. The ride with SSP is firm compared to non-sports cars, but like anything ride/handling is personal preference and depends on your driving style and the roads you're on.

[aoh]

Thanks for the feedback.

So, any suggestions on how I can verify that I am actually getting the PLUS set-up other than taking the dealer's word for it (and paying more $$$) ?

Does it say "PLUS" on the anti-roll bars, different colour springs or something like that ?

[stuartkey]

Yes, there is a visually id for the suspension...

I don't know about anyone else, but if I park up with full steering lock on (either way) I can see in behind the front wheels and on a part of the front suspension (don't ask me what part) there are labels still attached which identify the parts as either "Cooper" or "Cooper S"

Obviously, the parts marked "Cooper S" are the SS+ components, which is what I have on my Cooper, added as part of Chili, together with an upgrade to the 17" S-spokes.

This combination does make for a very firm ride, but it really is remarkable at going round the curvy bits! Initially I thought it was too firm, and I still wince when driving on particularly bad roads, but it has settled down a bit since new. Or maybe I've got used to it!

I suspect that standard sports suspension with the 17's maybe a little more... er, refined.

[aoh]

THANKS ! Will check it out.

I've ordered my Cooper with the PLUS suspension and 16" wheels.

[Electrc109]

as far as I know, the springs are stiffer also. could someone confirm this theory? I am thinking of putting the SS+ springs on the front of my Cooper to reduce the understeer a bit.

[Damo]

I thought there were about 10 or more differant settings for the car. i.e.:

Sports standard
Sports with Sunroof
Sports with Air Con
Sports with Sun Roof and Air Con

and

Cooper Sports plus standard
Cooper Sports plus with Sunroof
Cooper Sports plus with Air Con
Cooper Sports plus with Sun Roof and Air Con

and

Cooper S Sports plus standard
Cooper S Sports plus with Sunroof
Cooper S Sports plus with Air Con
Cooper S Sports plus with Sun Roof and Air Con

Then again maybe thats just the spring settings?

[Racer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Electrc109
as far as I know, the springs are stiffer also. could someone confirm this theory? I am thinking of putting the SS+ springs on the front of my Cooper to reduce the understeer a bit.

Electrc109 - If you're looking to reduce the understeer you need to go softer front harder rear ie put the SS+ on the rear and leave the front - Stiffer front springs will induce more understeers

[Electrc109]

well, i have a possibility of buying a full set of the SS+ springs so either way, im set...

[Electrc109]

http://www.wtrscca.org/tech.htm
here's a car setup guide...

[Racer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Electrc109
well, i have a possibility of buying a full set of the SS+ springs so either way, im set...

Just trying to pass on the benefit of knowledge and experience as is the point of forums - If your not interested or don't believe the facts (ie either way) fine I'll keep my opinions out of your threads

[Electrc109]

im apologize, i did not mean to come off that way, i was actually hoping have that confirmed....i appreciate the attention, and then found the above website...

[Racer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Electrc109
im apologize, i did not mean to come off that way, i was actually hoping have that confirmed....i appreciate the attention, and then found the above website...

Electrc109 thats OK it was late over here when I posted and had a long day - I probably could have been more unbderstanding

[Electrc109]

lets just all gather 'round in a MINI circle and rev our engines in good spirit of motoring.

hehe =)

despite where I add the SS+ springs, at least I have a simple opportunity to better balance the car to my liking.
something that I have noticed about MINIs, when driving hard, it is beneficial to brake early and accelerate out of corners. this is where the 'attitude' of the car is most favorable (i prefer to have a more lunging attitude out of turns where one can correct oversteer with the accelerator & steering). do you agree with me on this?

[Damo]

Quote:

Originally posted by Electrc109
lets just all gather 'round in a MINI circle and rev our engines in good spirit of motoring.

hehe =)

despite where I add the SS+ springs, at least I have a simple opportunity to better balance the car to my liking.
something that I have noticed about MINIs, when driving hard, it is beneficial to brake early and accelerate out of corners. this is where the 'attitude' of the car is most favorable (i prefer to have a more lunging attitude out of turns where one can correct oversteer with the accelerator & steering). do you agree with me on this?

Braking into a corner (i.e. just before you turn) could give you more grip on your front tyres as the weight shifts to the front tyres so you turn better. Accelerating into corner lifts weight of tyres reducing cornering so making you understeer.

Not sure what would be best to be honest no doubt racer will give us the proper info

[Racer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Damo


Braking into a corner (i.e. just before you turn) could give you more grip on your front tyres as the weight shifts to the front tyres so you turn better. Accelerating into corner lifts weight of tyres reducing cornering so making you understeer.

Not sure what would be best to be honest no doubt racer will give us the proper info

Its a bit of a difficult one this - Tyres have their max grip when they have between 5% and 10% slippage (Seems strange but known fact) - Now how do you tell thats happening - well a chirp of the tyres mid corner is a reasonable indicator - If you get lots of tyre squeal entering the corner you've gone in too fast - If you get no noise (wet excluded) there is probably more left to do!

Now as for braking - generally the car should have as stable an attitude as possible during the process ie All braking in a straight line (and gear changes). Once your in the corner balancing act begins to keep the car as close to it's limits (accelerator) as possible.

On the 'loose' stuff it's different - in order to prevent vast understeer or lose momentum you should pendulum the car (a la rally driving) but this is not my speciality so I'll leave it to someone else to supply more info

Braking during the first part of cornering (trail braking) can be used to good effect to get a better 'turn in' BUT set-up of your suspension and tracking is a much better way to do this (see Electric109's link to car setup further up the thread)

Generally for optimum speed use the theory that the less time your foot is on the brake the quicker you'll get around the track (or road if your being naughty)

R

[Electrc109]

I am begining to learn more about how to drive my mini to its best potential. I feel that with a slight oversteer tendency (which I am familiar with from my Golf) the car will be better tuned to my liking...as of now it takes a little too much effort to get the car to behave the way I want it to...

I put a rear strut tower bar in my 89 Golf to add to the oversteer. Do springs make proportionally more or less of a difference in handling qualities than a strut bar? I'd assume more, but then again, that is merely a conjecture of mine...

[Racer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Electrc109
I am begining to learn more about how to drive my mini to its best potential. I feel that with a slight oversteer tendency (which I am familiar with from my Golf) the car will be better tuned to my liking...as of now it takes a little too much effort to get the car to behave the way I want it to...

I put a rear strut tower bar in my 89 Golf to add to the oversteer. Do springs make proportionally more or less of a difference in handling qualities than a strut bar? I'd assume more, but then again, that is merely a conjecture of mine...

The answer I belive is 'different' rather than more or less - The strut is a linear change that is it stiffens the rear shell / removes independent motion from the rear end side to side the same at 1mph as at 100mph- The srings are proportional the more you compress the spring the harder it becomes to compress - Given this I think the answer would be - on the limit they proably produce the smae effect - how noticeable that is depends on how much stiffer the spirngs are / how stiff the strut makes the car - However at the lower levels ie during normal driving the strut still produces the same effect whereas the springs produce a lesser effect -

If the springs (for example) were 400lb springs in the MINI you would need a fairly hefty and well fitted rear strut to produce the same effect - I would adjust spirng rates before ultimately fitting the strut which is less flexible in it's 'tuning'

[Electrc109]

thanks racer! I can't wait to try the SS+ springs now.