MINI2

Iain1970 · Dec 3rd, 2003, 12:26 PM

We've had our Cooper since September '02, can we forget the memory of our Golf IV TDI's mid range punch? Sadly not. The lack of mid range has to be the biggest disappointment with the car. We've even experienced a little back fire at around 2000rpm. It's most noticable (like an old damp Mini) when cold, but there's a hesitancy there all the time. I'm going to see what can be done when the 10000mile service comes up. Any ideas?

KenL · Dec 3rd, 2003, 01:04 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Iain1970

Any ideas?

Change down and keep the revs up

punkeyfunky · Dec 3rd, 2003, 01:11 PM

I'm assuming that the Golf was a 1.9 TDI. maybe the 130PS version (two letters of the TDI badge are red) or even the 150PS version (all three letters of badge are red).

I think that you aren't compariing like for like. Almost all diesels have fantastic mid-range, and lots of torque, and conversely, relatively little top end. The MINI is (of course) the other way around, more top end than mid range.

Oh, and the Golf has slightly more capacity-wise than Mini.

My Mrs has got the 1.9TDI Golf, 130-PS version, and the mid-range is formidable & impressive. But, I can still beat it when I get my Cooper spinning up

As the last post said, change down and ensure you are in the 4000+ rpm sweet spot

Lee

rinos69 · Dec 3rd, 2003, 01:21 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by KenL

Change down and keep the revs up

That's the fix!!!

BTW Lain, i'm sorry but i think your dealer won't be able to do anything for you, since the two 'faults' you mentioned are peculiarities of every petrol engine.
i know what you feel because i often drive my father's car, a Fiat Stilo JTD (ok, at least the engine is superb) and i really enjoy the mid range punch you said...

But then i jump into my MINI and have no hesitation on what car i *love*.

P.S. never thought of swapping your Cooper for a (eventually chipped) OneD?

badboyzbadboyz · Dec 4th, 2003, 07:56 PM

There is definatley a lack of mid-range grunt for the cooper but I think it really makes the car quite exciting to drive. Once it gets over 4,000 it really takes off and changes personality. My friend drives a 130 Golf Tdi and although it is fast in mid-range revs that is it. It doesn't have much at all in the higher revs and this IMO makes it much more boring to drive. I like to rev the car and drive on the redline.

Tonyt3 · Dec 4th, 2003, 08:17 PM

Your old car was a diesel and it had a turbo.... of course it will have massive midrange punch - thats a simple charachteristick of that type of car.... masses of torque to push you along....

But thats TDi's for you. It isn't just VW's, Peugots are good too. Especially going up steep hills.

However, Mini D's are just plain underpowered and too expensive.

I am driving a WOrks Cooper at the moment, while my own S is getting its JCW. Its interesting how weak the Cooper is, even with the conversion, lower down. Sure, get the revs up and its a hoot.

Treat yourself to a go in the supercharged car if you can. The difference is in some areas astounding.

Beastmaster · Dec 5th, 2003, 07:06 PM

put a k&n Typhoon induction kit on it. It doesnt make it much faster particularly, but it does make it pull uphills better and make an improvemnet to the mid range. the sound it makes compliments the Cooper's natural growl making hard acceleration above 3000 revs very exciting. Bit of an illusion as it is more noise than go but nonetheless the oomph is improved. it did the trick for me in gettting me to forgive the Coopers achilles heel - it's lack of mid range punch.

wrenny · Dec 6th, 2003, 05:04 PM

I would say the same as the guy above......

Even now you still get caught out of "the sweet spot" and a robin reliant scoots past...

adios

R1 · Dec 6th, 2003, 08:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Iain1970

We've had our Cooper since September '02, can we forget the memory of our Golf IV TDI's mid range punch? Sadly not.

Consolation though.

The Golf looks crap!

mind you, I wouldn't mind a drive in an R32!

barrie74 · Jan 15th, 2004, 03:56 PM

Yeah I have to say I was a little disapointed with the mid range pick-up but I put a tank of Shell Optimax in the other day and I have to say whilst it can't cure it it certainly improves it

adamlondon · Jan 15th, 2004, 04:24 PM

Shell Optimax? Try Nitrous Oxide for that extra omph!

mini_magik · Jan 15th, 2004, 05:58 PM

I have a Mini Cooper 2002 Sep and when i first drove mine after the running in process i thought it was a bit limp between 2000rpm - 5000rpm.

now i have the JCW ECU Upgrade i can feel a huge difference. There is a much better pick up now between the rev range now and acceration is much better.

The only draw back is that it is now allot more thursty. Great in combination with BP Ultimate.

Try the fuel first then the ECU if you want. Good start.

dansmini · Jan 15th, 2004, 06:06 PM

The "backfire" @ 2000 rpms does not sound normal to me!

RedUn · Jan 17th, 2004, 12:07 PM

the Mini's only a 1.6 wot u expect

go drive any other 1.6 in the market and they are the same!

change down keep the revs up is the only thing u can do apart from buy and S

badboyzbadboyz · Jan 17th, 2004, 12:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by RedUn

the Mini's only a 1.6 wot u expect

go drive any other 1.6 in the market and they are the same!

To be fair the 1.6 engine in the Saxo VTS is quite alot more torquey than the Cooper engine, but IMO the lack of torque in the Cooper makes it different to drive with that golden 4,500 kick

Deadliner · Jan 17th, 2004, 01:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz

To be fair the 1.6 engine in the Saxo VTS is quite alot more torquey than the Cooper engine, but IMO the lack of torque in the Cooper makes it different to drive with that golden 4,500 kick

I've only driven a Mini One for a test drive (still waiting for my Cooper). I've been reading about this boost at 4500 rpm, but how's the noise level there? I think that when you're at high rpm and the noise is too intense, driving gets a bit 'nervous', it feels like you're really stressing the car (feeling sorry about it!). Does it feel that way?

But what can I tell, I'm influenced by my old car and it's poor 68 HP!

Well some insight would be helpful so I know what to expect when I get my Cooper!

Panayiotis

badboyzbadboyz · Jan 17th, 2004, 01:15 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Deadliner

I've only driven a Mini One for a test drive (still waiting for my Cooper). I've been reading about this boost at 4500 rpm, but how's the noise level there? I think that when you're at high rpm and the noise is too intense, driving gets a bit 'nervous', it feels like you're really stressing the car (feeling sorry about it!). Does it feel that way?

But what can I tell, I'm influenced by my old car and it's poor 68 HP!

Well some insight would be helpful so I know what to expect when I get my Cooper!

Panayiotis

No, the Cooper sounds really good when revved. In many ways I prefer the sound of a Cooper to the MCS (only two months waiting for my MCS left). It sounds quite beefy and I think revving it is how the car is designed to be driven. There is no doubt though that in some situations the lack of torque might get a bit frustrating - like on the motorway - as the Cooper just cannot effortlessly overtake like the S can in gear. Maybe you should take a test drive in a Cooper to settle your worries, because I found the Cooper to install confidence in my driving when revving it rather than take it away.

JohnWB · Jan 17th, 2004, 01:15 PM

I must agree that the Cooper is a bit lacking in the mid range. I tried one out, to replace my 106 XSI (1600), and the diference was realy noticable so I have gone for a MCS ( only 45 days to go until arives )

RedUn · Jan 17th, 2004, 01:15 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz

To be fair the 1.6 engine in the Saxo VTS is quite alot more torquey than the Cooper engine, but IMO the lack of torque in the Cooper makes it different to drive with that golden 4,500 kick

dunno where that came from cus the Mini has 3 lb/ft of torque more

it will just feel have a better torque to weight ratio thats all

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnWB

I must agree that the Cooper is a bit lacking in the mid range. I tried one out, to replace my 106 XSI (1600), and the diference was realy noticable so I have gone for a MCS ( only 45 days to go until arives )

that'll be the weight difference again

JohnWB · Jan 17th, 2004, 01:28 PM

No its a lot more that just the weight difference, it even puls a lot better in 5th than the Cooper does in 4th. If you check the tourqe curves, the 106 has peak torque at 3500rpm compared to the Cooper at 4500rpm

Dec 3rd, 2003, 12:26 PM	#1
Iain1970 Escorts Bescorts! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rochdale Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 17 Offline	Crappy mid-range! We've had our Cooper since September '02, can we forget the memory of our Golf IV TDI's mid range punch? Sadly not. The lack of mid range has to be the biggest disappointment with the car. We've even experienced a little back fire at around 2000rpm. It's most noticable (like an old damp Mini) when cold, but there's a hesitancy there all the time. I'm going to see what can be done when the 10000mile service comes up. Any ideas?

Dec 3rd, 2003, 01:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
KenL MINI2 Master Join Date: May 2002 Location: Edinburgh Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 5,216 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Iain1970 Any ideas? Change down and keep the revs up Red/Black R56 Cooper

Dec 5th, 2003, 07:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Beastmaster Peanut Groupie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Malvern Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 1,252 Offline	put a k&n Typhoon induction kit on it. It doesnt make it much faster particularly, but it does make it pull uphills better and make an improvemnet to the mid range. the sound it makes compliments the Cooper's natural growl making hard acceleration above 3000 revs very exciting. Bit of an illusion as it is more noise than go but nonetheless the oomph is improved. it did the trick for me in gettting me to forgive the Coopers achilles heel - it's lack of mid range punch. Visit CooperBeast's website Mini Movie of the Week

Dec 6th, 2003, 05:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
wrenny MINI2 Senior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Braintree, Essex Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 581 Offline	I would say the same as the guy above...... Even now you still get caught out of "the sweet spot" and a robin reliant scoots past... adios CHILLI RED, CHILLI PACK, MAGNEX & PIPERCROSS BAGS OF FUN gone now but not forgotten, an s next time ?

Jan 15th, 2004, 03:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
barrie74 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2004 Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 26 Offline	Better fuel Yeah I have to say I was a little disapointed with the mid range pick-up but I put a tank of Shell Optimax in the other day and I have to say whilst it can't cure it it certainly improves it

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Dec 3rd, 2003, 01:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
punkeyfunky UberGeek Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Milton Keynes Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 862 Offline	I'm assuming that the Golf was a 1.9 TDI. maybe the 130PS version (two letters of the TDI badge are red) or even the 150PS version (all three letters of badge are red). I think that you aren't compariing like for like. Almost all diesels have fantastic mid-range, and lots of torque, and conversely, relatively little top end. The MINI is (of course) the other way around, more top end than mid range. Oh, and the Golf has slightly more capacity-wise than Mini. My Mrs has got the 1.9TDI Golf, 130-PS version, and the mid-range is formidable & impressive. But, I can still beat it when I get my Cooper spinning up As the last post said, change down and ensure you are in the 4000+ rpm sweet spot Lee

Dec 3rd, 2003, 01:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
rinos69 MINI2 Goofy Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: in the middle of pia Local Time: 03:19 AM Posts: 165 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by KenL Change down and keep the revs up That's the fix!!! BTW Lain, i'm sorry but i think your dealer won't be able to do anything for you, since the two 'faults' you mentioned are peculiarities of every petrol engine. i know what you feel because i often drive my father's car, a Fiat Stilo JTD (ok, at least the engine is superb) and i really enjoy the mid range punch you said... But then i jump into my MINI and have no hesitation on what car i love. P.S. never thought of swapping your Cooper for a (eventually chipped) OneD?

Dec 4th, 2003, 07:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
badboyzbadboyz MINI2 Jedi Master Join Date: May 2003 Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 1,257 Offline	There is definatley a lack of mid-range grunt for the cooper but I think it really makes the car quite exciting to drive. Once it gets over 4,000 it really takes off and changes personality. My friend drives a 130 Golf Tdi and although it is fast in mid-range revs that is it. It doesn't have much at all in the higher revs and this IMO makes it much more boring to drive. I like to rev the car and drive on the redline.

Dec 4th, 2003, 08:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tonyt3 Track addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hants Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 6,258 Offline	Your old car was a diesel and it had a turbo.... of course it will have massive midrange punch - thats a simple charachteristick of that type of car.... masses of torque to push you along.... But thats TDi's for you. It isn't just VW's, Peugots are good too. Especially going up steep hills. However, Mini D's are just plain underpowered and too expensive. I am driving a WOrks Cooper at the moment, while my own S is getting its JCW. Its interesting how weak the Cooper is, even with the conversion, lower down. Sure, get the revs up and its a hoot. Treat yourself to a go in the supercharged car if you can. The difference is in some areas astounding.

Dec 6th, 2003, 08:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
R1 Addicted to Speed!! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..."B" roads!! Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 4,915 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Iain1970 We've had our Cooper since September '02, can we forget the memory of our Golf IV TDI's mid range punch? Sadly not. Consolation though. The Golf looks crap! mind you, I wouldn't mind a drive in an R32!

Jan 15th, 2004, 04:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
adamlondon MINI2 Senior Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 427 Offline	Shell Optimax? Try Nitrous Oxide for that extra omph!

Jan 15th, 2004, 05:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
mini_magik Man Of All Mods Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxfordshire Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 618 Offline	JCW ECU Upgrade I have a Mini Cooper 2002 Sep and when i first drove mine after the running in process i thought it was a bit limp between 2000rpm - 5000rpm. now i have the JCW ECU Upgrade i can feel a huge difference. There is a much better pick up now between the rev range now and acceration is much better. The only draw back is that it is now allot more thursty. Great in combination with BP Ultimate. Try the fuel first then the ECU if you want. Good start.

Jan 15th, 2004, 06:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
dansmini Sullivan Racing Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ohio Local Time: 09:19 PM Posts: 1,138 Offline	The "backfire" @ 2000 rpms does not sound normal to me!

Jan 17th, 2004, 12:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
RedUn MUGEN POWER Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: s2ki.com Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 11,615 Offline	the Mini's only a 1.6 wot u expect go drive any other 1.6 in the market and they are the same! change down keep the revs up is the only thing u can do apart from buy and S

Jan 17th, 2004, 12:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
badboyzbadboyz MINI2 Jedi Master Join Date: May 2003 Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 1,257 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by RedUn the Mini's only a 1.6 wot u expect go drive any other 1.6 in the market and they are the same! To be fair the 1.6 engine in the Saxo VTS is quite alot more torquey than the Cooper engine, but IMO the lack of torque in the Cooper makes it different to drive with that golden 4,500 kick

Jan 17th, 2004, 01:07 PM	#16 (permalink)
Deadliner MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Thessaloniki, Greece Local Time: 03:19 AM Posts: 85 Offline	What about noise at 4500 rpm? Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz To be fair the 1.6 engine in the Saxo VTS is quite alot more torquey than the Cooper engine, but IMO the lack of torque in the Cooper makes it different to drive with that golden 4,500 kick I've only driven a Mini One for a test drive (still waiting for my Cooper). I've been reading about this boost at 4500 rpm, but how's the noise level there? I think that when you're at high rpm and the noise is too intense, driving gets a bit 'nervous', it feels like you're really stressing the car (feeling sorry about it!). Does it feel that way? But what can I tell, I'm influenced by my old car and it's poor 68 HP! Well some insight would be helpful so I know what to expect when I get my Cooper! Panayiotis

Jan 17th, 2004, 01:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
badboyzbadboyz MINI2 Jedi Master Join Date: May 2003 Local Time: 01:19 AM Posts: 1,257 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Deadliner I've only driven a Mini One for a test drive (still waiting for my Cooper). I've been reading about this boost at 4500 rpm, but how's the noise level there? I think that when you're at high rpm and the noise is too intense, driving gets a bit 'nervous', it feels like you're really stressing the car (feeling sorry about it!). Does it feel that way? But what can I tell, I'm influenced by my old car and it's poor 68 HP! Well some insight would be helpful so I know what to expect when I get my Cooper! Panayiotis No, the Cooper sounds really good when revved. In many ways I prefer the sound of a Cooper to the MCS (only two months waiting for my MCS left). It sounds quite beefy and I think revving it is how the car is designed to be driven. There is no doubt though that in some situations the lack of torque might get a bit frustrating - like on the motorway - as the Cooper just cannot effortlessly overtake like the S can in gear. Maybe you should take a test drive in a Cooper to settle your worries, because I found the Cooper to install confidence in my driving when revving it rather than take it away.

Jan 17th, 2004, 01:15 PM	#18 (permalink)
JohnWB MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Middlesbrough, UK Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 324 Offline	I must agree that the Cooper is a bit lacking in the mid range. I tried one out, to replace my 106 XSI (1600), and the diference was realy noticable so I have gone for a MCS ( only 45 days to go until arives ) Laser Blue / Black MCS - Arived March 07

Jan 17th, 2004, 01:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
RedUn MUGEN POWER Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: s2ki.com Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 11,615 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz To be fair the 1.6 engine in the Saxo VTS is quite alot more torquey than the Cooper engine, but IMO the lack of torque in the Cooper makes it different to drive with that golden 4,500 kick dunno where that came from cus the Mini has 3 lb/ft of torque more it will just feel have a better torque to weight ratio thats all Quote: Originally Posted by JohnWB I must agree that the Cooper is a bit lacking in the mid range. I tried one out, to replace my 106 XSI (1600), and the diference was realy noticable so I have gone for a MCS ( only 45 days to go until arives ) that'll be the weight difference again

Jan 17th, 2004, 01:28 PM	#20 (permalink)
JohnWB MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Middlesbrough, UK Local Time: 02:19 AM Posts: 324 Offline	No its a lot more that just the weight difference, it even puls a lot better in 5th than the Cooper does in 4th. If you check the tourqe curves, the 106 has peak torque at 3500rpm compared to the Cooper at 4500rpm Laser Blue / Black MCS - Arived March 07

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