[NutTheBus]

Hello,

I've been mulling over buying a new car for a while. I initally like the idea of a Cooper S but really after options and insurance it would be too pricey. I ended up looking at the 206 GTI (nearly new) for about 12k then realised the Cooper has similar (slightly slower) performance. I can't decide which would be better - buying a nearly new Cooper or getting a brand new one. Obviously I'm thinking of the price moutning with options a new one but what puts me off buying a nearly new one is the problems they had, an earlier model might have electrical/seats/alarm problems. What realistically should I budget for? I'm thinking of climate control, sports suspension plus, the extra finish on the dash, xenon lights if they're available yet. I got a brochure from my local BMW dealer a while back, but no option price list. Is there any online options price list or is that too much to hope for?

Best to actually go see the dealer (they're miles away!) I suppose.


Cheers,

PS My interest in the Cooper was re-ignited by an article in the Scotsman. The journalist there was sceptical about the MINI until his wofe bought one - he spent his column praising it.

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Quote:

Is there any online options price list or is that too much to hope for?

The manufacturer's site does indeed have an online price list.

I would have thought the savings on a nearly new Cooper were not that great - new makes more sense to me. However, you will only get a basic Cooper for £12K. The list price is very competative, but compared to the 206 GTI equipment levels are poor. The 206 is also much more practical if space is a factor.

Just for information, climate control is £830, sports suspension plus is £100, xenon lights £350. This is before you get more basic options such as a leather steering wheel and sports seats.

The main point of the Mini Cooper is its character, looks and it being so much fun to drive. Is adding a long list of extras such as xenon lights really neccessary? In the end its down to you.

[smiffy]

Its all a question of style

[ScottyHP]

Buy a new Cooper you can spec it just how you want it and hopefully not fall foul of the early build faults....
The 206 GTi is a nice motor but lets be honest it isn't in the same league as a MINI for build quality and levels of standard equipment + extras.

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Quote:

The 206 GTi is a nice motor but lets be honest it isn't in the same league as a MINI for build quality and levels of standard equipment + extras.

Build quality? Subjective, but Minis have had their share of faults.

Standard equipment? The 206 GTI includes climate control, alarm, leather seats, CD player (6 CD changer), 16" alloy wheels, rain sensing wipers, and trip computer as standard. I agree the Cooper isn't in the same league, but its a lower league!

[ScottyHP]

R&W Cooper 2, Point taken I was certainly too judgemental of the level of standard equipment and have since realised the rashness of my opinion but as for the build quality, have you actually owned a pug before? A few years down the line you will see what I mean. I admit the 206 and the latest pug models have improved a lot but Im sorry it aint even close to BMW/MINI, subjective.....I don't think so. Im not being biased I quite like the 206 in GTi form. Im sorry to get into a 'my cars better than your car' debate but this is a MINI site after all
Any way on a seriuos note lets be fair they are completly different cars the 206 GTi is a hot (well maybe warm) hatch but the MINI is much harder to categorise. Both cars whilst apealling to younger drivers (GTi even more so) I just can't help thinking that the pug will be forgoten quite easily where on the other hand I think BMW have created a possible modern classic in the MINI.
Even having the cash to afford a new 206 GTi or even a 172 Clio I still ordered a MINI as I want something a bit different and not as common.

Maybe your 'lower league' comment was tongue in cheek, well I hope it was! as I certainly didn't see a Lion logo on the front page of this site

[lightbody]

I don't think you can define the MINI based on equipment levels and compare with other cars - its just not an "ordinary" car... its unique. Closest comparisons, IMHO, are with MX-5s and the like which are similarly impractical but aiming to be fun.

If it was down to common sense you wouldn't even consider the MINI because of the tiny rear seat/boot! But its not down to common sense. Thank goodness.

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Quote:

Maybe your 'lower league' comment was tongue in cheek, well I hope it was!

It was not meant to be tongue in cheek so far as equipment is concerned - I do think the standard Cooper is under-equipped. However, I too could have bought a 206GTI but bought a Mini instead, so this should show my overall opinion of both cars for my circumstances (i.e. rear seat and boot space are not a priority).

I also agree that the 206GTI is not a classic like the 205GTI and that Mini will be (or already is!).

I have owned a Peugeot before, a 1991 205XS which I kept for 5 years. It actually lasted really well, though the perception of build quality was nothing like the Polo I replaced it with. The Mini gives mixed build-quality messages - mostly the quality is very good, but the effect is spoiled by rattles and creaks. And though I like the "silver plastic sword" interior trim, it doesn't really scream "quality" - more "fun" which is such a key element of the car.

I also agree with lightbody that the Mini's appeal is down to fun. It may be poorly equipped, not really all that fast, there are other cars that handle as well, but overall it has some kind of magic.

[ScottyHP]

Quote:

I also agree with lightbody that the Mini's appeal is down to fun. It may be poorly equipped, not really all that fast, there are other cars that handle as well, but overall it has some kind of magic

Again I will agree and it is obviuos that the 206 has a better spec than a STANDARD Cooper but it is £2095 more expensive spending that on extras on the MINI would very nearly match the spec e.g. Cooper, Chili Pack, Auto Air Con, CD Changer and Computer =£13755. But again I will add the two cars can't be compared on common generic options such as these. The MINI has unrivelled levels of customisation through it optional extras, no other car in its class can offer the different combos of trim. For me that is what puts the MINI is a different league and that is backed up in the quote above 'it has some kind of magic' I am sure that could never be said about the 206.

Plus I add do you really consider the standard MINI to be poorly equiped???

[Washy]

As my cooper replaced a 206 gti I guess I may have some pertinent views.
The 206 was obvoiusly quicker, but for a Pug the 206 has not got the handling that the 205 and also the 106 are noted for.
When I bought my 206 I was worried about the build quality, I was convinced that it would fall apart within 6 months, it actually proved very reliable and in the time I had it it never had to go in for anything other than the routine servicing. Unfortunately my cooper has had the majority of the faults documented elsewhere on the site, however they have all been sorted and the car is now spot on.
I specced my cooper up to the level of the 206 and it cost just under £14k

The 206gti is a nice car and has more power than the cooper, but in my opinion the MINI is the better car. It is LOADS more fun to drive and has more charisma than the 206 will ever have. Even with all the problems I have had with my cooper I woyuld never swap back to the 206.

[lightbody]

>> there are other cars that handle as well

Which ones!!??

[ScottyHP]

Good point Lightbody, come to think of it what cars in its class even come close????

[gazzaman28]

What cars in ANY class come close? (apart from Lotus Elise/VX220 and other fast sports cars)

You could argue it's the best handling "everyday" car in the world.

[Dom]

When Road & Track reviewed the Cooper I thought it got a faster speed through the slalom than any Ferrari has ever done, and most Porsches. Which is impressive... but those who already have one can see why!

Dom

[ScottyHP]

I second that opinion. Plus just read what Washy has got to say, the argument of what is quicker never even crossed my mind as the 206 is a 2.0 and has bags of power, but as Washy's experienced view suggests it just hasn't got the chasis and handling capability of a MINI Cooper.

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Quote:

>> there are other cars that handle as well

Which ones!!??

Well, since you ask, I would suggest that the two handling benchmarks in this class have been the Peugeot 106 GTI and the Ford Puma.

The Mini Cooper was compared to the Ford Puma in most group tests. Autocar, What Car, Top Gear and Auto Express all judged the Puma to have better handling.

Only EVO magazine included a Peugeot 106 GTI (although it is Mini Cooper sized and priced), and their comments indicate its handling to be as good as the Mini.

[ScottyHP]

I thought you said better CARS, the Puma I will confirm has great handling but is it fare to compare the MINI to a completly different car in a different class (isn't it a sports coupe?) The only other car you've suggested is the 106, which is fair comment but even that one car doesn't exceed the MINI's handling performance.

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Quote:

I thought you said better CARS, the Puma I will confirm has great handling but is it fare to compare the MINI to a completly different car in a different class (isn't it a sports coupe?)

Well most motoring magazines thought it was fair. As lightbody posted, the Mini is not really a practical small car and so in many ways it competes directly with the small sports coupe. My own shortlist (in order of preference) was Mini Cooper, Puma 1.7, and Peugeot 206GTI.

Quote:

Plus I add do you really consider the standard MINI to be poorly equiped???

Put it this way - it's the only car I've ever bought where the spare wheel was an optional extra! The Sunday Times reported that the average UK spend on extras on Ones and Coopers was almost £2,000. I think that indicates that most people find the equipment levels insufficient.

Some cars in this class come with "surprise and delight features", such as standard aircon and CD players. I'll certainly admit that the Cooper's competitive list price is a surprise and delight feature. But this is followed "surprise and annoy features" when you look at the spec sheet and find sports seats, leather steering wheel, traction control, and the silver and chrome trim are all optional extras.

I would prefer a higher level of standard equipment with a higher list price. At least you could be more confident of getting some of your money back come trade-in time. I am all for choice, but has anyone actually bought a standard Cooper? You could also have no cost options (such as the standard steats or anthracite dash should you prefer them).

[NutTheBus]

Well I priced up my virtual Cooper and it came in at around 14,230. Yikes. However I was expecting around 14k anyway. This includes the chilli pack, climate control, stability control, metallic paint, heated mirrors/jets bonnet stripes, remote alarm. I toyed with the 17" but it bumps it up to 14,620 plus I think 17s are a bit over kill really. Though they look great I wonder if they have a negative performance effect? You'll notice no Cd changer - I was just going to get an aftermarket cd changer or mp3 player at a later date. I have heard the mention of a cable thru to the boot for the CD changer at no cost, is this still done?

What shocked me though was when I tried tescos online insurance it quoted me 484 quid! That's over 150 quid cheaper than my current Honda Civic 1.5 which is slower and worth about 2k!!!! A pleasent surprise. I don't understand quite why it is so cheap, any ideas? Possibly the advanced safety features/brakes and anti-theft stuff?

[ScottyHP]

I agree with most of what you are saying, but unfortunatly BMW and most German car manufacturers have always made their money through optional extras so it didn't really suprise me when I was deciding the spec of my MINI. I also tend to agree with your opinion of what class the MINI falls in, OK so it isn't as practical as most small hatches but I still don't agree with magazines comparing it to a sports coupe because it's the closest thing, lets be fair it just isn't a sports coupe. The fact of the matter is it has kind of filled a hole betweeen classes. I understand that it has to be compared to other cars in order to bench mark it and this will always be the case with any new car. As for the spare wheel I again will add this may be partly due to the fact most owners will end up having alloys with run flats, and will not require the s/s wheel.

In no way am I saying French cars are poor quality infact most have improved greatly, but by including so called FREE extras like CD players and air con or adding these to a standard spec is an attempt to increase a buyers perception of the cars quality and raise the manufacturers profile among other car makers. It is not uncommon to find Fiestas and the like with A/C but it does'nt actually make it a better car. BMW are trying to raise the standard of the small car class by using their already high profile and reputation, Ok so this means things like A/C and CD players are optional extras but more money has actually been invested in making the car as safe as possible and the driving experience the highest standard possible. OK so it's had mixed views on build quaility initialy but most new cars have problems that may only crop up once the car has been in production for a period of time. What it doesn't change is the fact every MINI owner has bought a small front wheel drive BMW and the MINI is everything you could expect a BMW to be.

Everyone would prefer more extras as standard but in a way by giving the MINI buyer the options to add to the spec this is a way to ensure that there are as many individual cars produced as possible, and give the owner the feeling he/she is making their OWN car. OK so this has become expensive for most of us!!! but I personally wouldn't change my MINI experience so far for anything. I just think you may be missing the point of what BMW are trying to achieve, OK they could have produced like the 206 GTi a generic production car that all you really pick is the colour but they have tried something different and tried to give some choice back to the buyer. As for buying a standard Cooper if I had a budget of £11600 I don't think you can buy a better small car for ability, looks and an instant high Profile in the BMW brand. So the answer is yes. And finally Im quite confindent that a Cooper's second hand value will remain higher compared to the second hand value of any Pug, Renualt and Ford. If you look at the second hand market most cars have high spec's and are still demanding an incredibly high price some with only a £500 saving on new. You will always loose money when buying new, but stand a better chance of recouping money with a BMW/MINI.