[NutTheBus]

Hello, just a question.

Since DSC is more expensive than ASC+T I take it ASC+T is included (or integrated) into DSC?


Cheers

[noahe]

Although a completely different system, DSC provides all the functions, or equivalent of ASC+T. The Cooper S I drove in a snow storm, definately had Traction Control as part of the DSC system.

[NutTheBus]

Thanks. That's wat I suspected, just didn't know quite how they compared.

[ELISEBOY]

so can someone clear this up

does that cooper come with any form as standard?

I have the ASC+T whcih i paid extra for and thought this was the full system

is there a DSC as well then cause i didnt see this in the options list?

[Red & White Cooper 2]

Quote:

does that cooper come with any form as standard?

As standard, the Cooper comes with anti-lock brakes including Electronic Braking Distribution and Cornering Brake Control. This does help cornering while braking - I have experienced it - its wierd but good!

Quote:

is there a DSC as well then cause i didnt see this in the options list?

DSC was not available until fairly recently, and wasn't on the first options list.

[noahe]

ASC+T is All Season (traction) Control.
I have also heard this called "Automatic Stability Control, plus Traction Control". It basically prevents your car from skidding due to excessive acceleration. It will apply the brakes and reduce engine torque in order to reign in control.

DSC is Dynamic Stability Control. It incorporates the function above, as well as utilizes yaw sensors, wheel speed sensors, and steering angle input, to determine if the car is skidding out of control. This system, one up from ASC+T prevents oversteer, understeer, and just about any other skid you could get yourself into. It can apply any one or more of the brakes, as well as route more engine torque to one front wheel over another.

There is a LOT of info on this... Search DSC, right here on MINI2.

[karmuze]

There was a great deal of discussion of DSC and ASC+T back in January and February. One of the BMW websites contains a brief description of both and was referenced in this post:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...t=54#post35268

The simple way I try to keep them straight is that:
ASC+T acts to prevent the front wheels from spinning under acceleration by applying the brake on the spinning drive wheel, then reducing the engine throttle if more action is still required.

DSC in addition, acts to prevent loss of control during cornering or sudden steering maneuvers by applying the brake on any combination of all four wheels and also reducing the throttle if necessary.

Quote:

Originally posted by noahe

DSC can apply any one or more of the brakes, as well as route more engine torque to one front wheel over another.

noahe, from what I've read on the subject, everything you said above is accurate except I don't know how DSC can send more torque to one drive wheel, since no MINI model has a limited slip differential.

[noahe]

Quote:

noahe, from what I've read on the subject, everything you said above is accurate except I don't know how DSC can send more torque to one drive wheel, since no MINI model has a limited slip differential.

Since the DSC system can moderate, and apply the brake to a threshold, by braking one wheel, more torque will be applied to the unbraked wheel. In a severe oversteer condition, the MINI's DSC could have the front left tire just on the verge of locking (actually rotating slower than the road) and the front right tire just on the verge of slippage (slightly spinning). The effect of which is to drag the car around a corner, it otherwise wouldn't make, steering it's self like a Bobcat construction shovel or a tank does.

Another example would be if one of the car's front wheels was on ice. The wheel not on ice would move the car, and the other one would be braked to the extent that it just rolled along with the car. There's no torque-sensing differential, but it utilizes the brakes and a real fancy conputer to achieve the same results.

[karmuze]

noahe, thanks for the clarification. But your explanation brings up a drawback I see for the DSC option. That is, that it only operates unilaterally--it slows the car by applying individual brakes, and also slows the car by reducing throttle or timing. It doesn't ever increase the throttle to allow the front wheels to accelerate the car out of an oversteer situation like you described above.
I know I've have saved the FWD car I drive in one situation where the back end started to come around, by doing the opposite that DSC would do--I accelerated, stayed out of the brakes, and cranked in a small amount of opposite lock.
The driver of a non DSC car has the option to use the throttle or brakes independently or together. DSC takes those options away from the driver. I know the amount of control that DSC exerts is programmed into the computer at the factory, and I don't know how intrusive or annoying the MINI DSC would be to my driving style, since it would probably take serveral months of ownership to determine that.
The other question I have wondered about, is whether any aftermarket tuner has ever considered selling custom DSC programming to suit the individual driver, as they do with custom programming of the engine management computer to increase the engine performance.

[noahe]

Well, I see your point, but disagree to a certain extent. Firstly, you can switch off DSC, and drive any way you like.
Secondly, if you felt it get loose in a corner, you could mash the accelerator and attempt to pull the car around, but the DSC will do one better, and make sure the outside wheel does the pulling, not both. The DSC does not always slow the car down to achieve it's goals. It uses the steering position, yaw sensor and other wheel speeds to determine if the car is going to make it. True, I doubt it is able to apply the throttle it's self, but if you do, it'll use it.

Think of it this way. The system is designed to get the car to do what you intended, based on driver input. If you panic, let off the gas, or even hit the brakes, it'll use what is has (brakes) to recover the car. If you aggressively roar into a corner, it'll brake the inside wheels, forcing power to the outside wheel, pulling you around that way. It's a drivers' aid. It's been proven in racing. If it always saved a car by slowing it, no one would win races.

Better to say this... It can optimize the speed of a car through a severe maneuver. It ultimately leads to the car going faster than slower. But without a four-wheel, white-knuckled slide through the corner, does it feel faster? Maybe not. But it is.

[groovy_jr]

Right...I am having DSC!

*ORDERED*