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post #61 of 167 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2012, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by X6Sport View Post
The UK Department for Transport has even said that the current system should be used for 'comparative purposes' rather than as examples of actual real world figures! Well gee, that's nice of them!! Why didn't they actually design a proper test in the first place!
those that can, do ....
those that can't, work for the government

pencil pushers designed the test, not engineers, so why are you surprised that the results are meaningless?

scott

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post #62 of 167 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2012, 11:42 PM
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Don't get me wrong chaps, but I find it surprising when I read topics along the lines of "oh Jesus, I am not getting the mpg's I was promised". I appreciate that people buying cars want them to be economical (better still, emit money instead of co2) and they reasonably expect to get what is said on the tin. But we are all adults here and lets face it, most of the time we buy something we know there may be a certain catch somewhere. Are folks really that naive to believe the mpg figures they saw in some brochure? Of course those figures exaggerate, they always do. There are plenty of forums about other cars and guess what, you will always find people saying they can't get the advertised mileage. So the smart thing to do is to check out what other people say about their experience and take anything the car manufacturer tells you with a pinch of salt before you spend your hard earned money. Otherwise listening people complaining or threatening to sue sounds like a lame PR compaign paid for by competitors.
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post #63 of 167 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2012, 08:50 AM
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Greenlanddock, you're absolutely right. There are many different factors that influence the consumption and real life has got a part to play. We'll never be able to get to the figures quoted.

The reason I am upset about the figures I am achieving is that on a long extra urban run I struggle to be at 45mpg, where 67.3 is advertised. My consumption therefore should be more than 50% better than it is. That difference is too big and I do feel there is something wrong with my car.
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post #64 of 167 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2012, 10:11 AM
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I suspect people getting different fuel economy figures is partly down to driving style and partly due to misunderstanding what the official numbers measure. For example:
- all tests are done with all ancillaries (air con, heated rear window) off;
- most of the extra-urban test is done at speeds between 50 and 100 km/hr (31 and 62 mph) with only a few percent of the time at 120 km/hr (75mph).

Which? magazine do quite comprehensive economy testing, on real roads, and include their own test of motorway driving. Their data for the (2WD) SD Countryman is:
- urban : 54.3 mpg official : 48.7 mpg measured
- extra-urban : 65.7 mpg official : 62.8 mpg measured
- motorway : n/a mpg official : 44.8 mpg measured

Incidentally, the 67.3 mpg extra-urban is from the D Countryman and Which? got exactly the same result. They recently tested a diesel 1 series and actually got better extra-urban economy than the official test!

I think the economy figures for the Countryman are a particular problem as people are expecting something like the economy of a Mini when it is a much bigger car (about 20% more frontal area and hence aero drag) and so must have worse economy, particularly at motorway speeds.

The EPA in America changed the way it measured fuel economy about a year ago, exactly in order to make the 'official' figures match more closely what people get in the real world. One side effect is that lots of people now claim US vehicles get worse fuel economy than they used to, because the official numbers have gone down! It wouldn't be surprising if Yurp followed the US lead since it clearly makes sense.
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post #65 of 167 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Which? magazine do quite comprehensive economy testing, on real roads, and include their own test of motorway driving.
Just to make things simple. Book as many test drives for as long as you can. Drive around in different conditions and check out your mileage figures afterwords. If you are getting 25 mpgs on average given your driving style, do you really expect the figures to go significantly higher once your new car becomes more settled and reach the claimed 40 mpgs? Just be realistic and instead ask yourself whether you can live with the actual mileage figures which may improve slightly by another 5 mpgs. If so, then go for it, any mpgs above your expectations are just a bonus. Otherwise walk away, with that kind of money involved, it is better be safe than sorry.
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post #66 of 167 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2012, 05:34 PM
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United-States other factors and mpg

i believe there are other factors at work here ...

now that i consider my countryman fully broken-in, i have started using the cruise control

no matter how carefully i drive, if i turn on the cruise, the "instantaneous" mileage goes up 4-6 mpg!

i think that the n18 engine is making boost (and sucking fuel) at such low rpm that even the slightest movement of the gas peddle results in extra fuel consumption

the computer is better than the human at keeping the speed constant, keeping the engine off-boost

i have observed this with the sport mode on and off

another observation, i still get better mpg at 55 mph in 5th gear than 6th gear, even with cruise engaged, too low an rpm consumes more fuel

another factor in the USA is ethanol in the fuel, i can buy 93 R+M/2 ethanol free fuel and get +6 mpg over 93 fuel that contains 10% ethanol

so far my mpg findings:

highest: 38.4 mpg, 200 miles expressway at 65 mpg (gps speed), cruise on

lowest 21.6 mpg, 150 miles secondary roads, finishing the running in after first 1200 miles, keeping revs mostly over 4500 rpm, 2nd-4th gear, lots of stop/starts due to stop signs

overall since new, 26.6 mpg
, i expect this to improve as i settle in on regular driving as opposed to breaking in style of heavy throttle, high engine load

last tank, 30.1 mpg, a mix of city/urban/highway, my "normal" driving, my last vehicle, 1997 4.3 liter v6 gmc pickup 4x4 5 speed manual got 16 mph under my "normal" driving so i am quite happy with 30 mpg from my countryman

scott

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post #67 of 167 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwr606 View Post
i believe there are other factors at work here ...

now that i consider my countryman fully broken-in, i have started using the cruise control

no matter how carefully i drive, if i turn on the cruise, the "instantaneous" mileage goes up 4-6 mpg! Yup....normal on all cars I have because the cruise control always hedges it's bets against deman, and some cars are much worse with cruise on rather than off. Going uphill is usually more efficient with the cruise off because the computer over compensates.

the computer is better than the human at keeping the speed constant, keeping the engine off-boost......yes, but as above with the cruise control it often errs on the side of caution.

i have observed this with the sport mode on and off

another observation, i still get better mpg at 55 mph in 5th gear than 6th gear, even with cruise engaged, too low an rpm consumes more fuel Agreed, and I find the computer suggested change points are too low

another factor in the USA is ethanol in the fuel, i can buy 93 R+M/2 ethanol free fuel and get +6 mpg over 93 fuel that contains 10% ethanol. UK Petrol & Diesel also contain Ethanol and Biofuels as I think do most European fuels and have done for years. I think our standard fuels are E5 (may rise to E10) B5 or B8. We don't have E85 (or anything higher than B8 for Diesel). Some EU manufacturers such as VW have built their cars to run on anything up to E85 and B80. Others including BMW are way behind the curve in only permitting up to E10 or B8.
Comments included above. Also as others have indicated, believing slavishly in the manufacturers published data is somewhat naive, but I think we have a right to expect the published and real world data to be closer to one another when there are the very wide discrepancies. Some manufacturers have already been taken to task over their figures as a re-run of the same test by another lab failed to obtain the same, or even close, figures. The test and results are supposed to be repeatable time after time after all! The current test is hopelessly flawed and I always rely on places such as this forum to tell me what I am really more likely to get rather than what a glossy brochure suggests.

Rick
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post #68 of 167 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2012, 10:49 AM
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i do not know about europe, but in the usa, the mileage advertised by auto companies MUST ONLY BE THE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT FIGURES

even if the auto companies know the usa epa numbers are not realistic, they still must use them

so again, don't blame the auto companies, contact your elected officials

scott

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post #69 of 167 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2012, 02:06 PM
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Yes, exactly the same in the UK. And the same advice Scott suggests applies here too..

I see identical discussions taking place in the BMW Forums too......and with all the same answers etc..
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post #70 of 167 (permalink) Old May 29th, 2012, 04:09 PM
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yesterday when i filled my fuel tank, the miles to empty display showed 436 miles! first time over 400.

when i picked the car up new, the miles to empty display was 232 and it has been climbing almost every tank

i bet at the cost of some time, by driving slow (the countryman is not aerodynamic!), i could get 500 miles out of a tank

i may try it

any members of the 500 mile tank club here in gas countryman land? i assume this is easy in a diesel.

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post #71 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 2012, 07:06 AM
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My latest mpg for Cooper SD All 4 at 8500 miles is improving. On a recent run over 3 days and 400 miles it was 54 mpg but driving gently on A and B roads with very little motorway or town driving. I have now reset the trip computer and driving the car in sport mode a lot of the time with some motorway driving and so far the average is 46 mpg.

My guess is that a realistic everyday figure now is going to be 48 -49 mpg.
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post #72 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 1st, 2012, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
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any members of the 500 mile tank club here in gas countryman land? i assume this is easy in a diesel.
scott
No, not easy in a diesel, but possible. I've tipped just over 500 on my last 2 tankfuls, but that is with a very conservative driving technique and with warmer outside temps (which always seems to contribute to improved mpg in my experience).
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post #73 of 167 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Temperature is the other big factor as it has an effect on air density and so the amount of energy needed to push the car forwards. On a previous Prius, we reckoned on 10-15% better fuel consumption at 20C than at 5C! The official figures are published I believe at 20C..... so warmer weather helps get a 500mile tank.... or driving to the sahara but leave the zircon off!
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post #74 of 167 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Apologies if this is already well known but there seems to be an anomaly in the way overall MPG is calculated by the Countryman's on-board computer – and possibly the rest of the mini family. I spotted this by chance when instead of seeing my usual 38mpg being displayed it had plummeted to 32 mpg. I eventually realised I was using my wife's keys and on using my own it returned to the norm. I hadn't realised that the profile stored in the key gives individual MPG rather than the car's overall MPG. It means of course the higher figure I was recording – and quite satisfied with - isn't an accurate indication of the vehicle's consumption. Does anyone know if this feature can be deactivated? I'd rather know the vehicle's fuel economy than my wife's. Who to be fair does many more short runs than I do.
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post #75 of 167 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 2012, 01:42 PM
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United-States 500 mile tank possible in a gas cms all4

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Apologies if this is already well known but there seems to be an anomaly in the way overall MPG is calculated by the Countryman's on-board computer and possibly the rest of the mini family. I spotted this by chance when instead of seeing my usual 38mpg being displayed it had plummeted to 32 mpg. I eventually realised I was using my wife's keys and on using my own it returned to the norm. I hadn't realised that the profile stored in the key gives individual MPG rather than the car's overall MPG. It means of course the higher figure I was recording and quite satisfied with - isn't an accurate indication of the vehicle's consumption. Does anyone know if this feature can be deactivated? I'd rather know the vehicle's fuel economy than my wife's. Who to be fair does many more short runs than I do.
very interesting ... i did not know this

i usually use one key, but i do use the other key for a couple days every 1st of the month

i have just given up on the OBC mpg figure as it is always low compared to doing the math of mile/gallons, but the miles-to-empty seems to be accurate ...

a while ago, i had to make a goferparts run, about 200 miles out and back, all interstate

i filled the tank at the station nearest the onramp and again on return, 55 (GPS) mph on cruise both ways yielded a 411 mile trip that used 9.8 gallons and the miles-to-empty was showing 104 miles!

i think a 500 mile tank is possible

i have another goferparts trip coming up, this one is about 1200 miles round trip and i am going for the 500 mile tank

will let you know

scott

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