[Jakx]

So says Andrew Frankel in today`s Sunday Times ! ?

What with 12th place in Autocar`s "Britain`s best driver`s car 2002" last Tuesday - what`s going on with our "testy" motoring journo`s ?

Only a few months ago the S was the best thing since the previous best thing !

When, why and how did this (implied) degeneration come about ?

[dinger]

Jakx,Maybe a those other 11 manufacturers gave him back handers.

[deej]

Quote:

Originally posted by dinger
Jakx,Maybe a those other 11 manufacturers gave him bigger back handers.

Que , what eeeez, wat yooo sayyyy a backhander?
manuel

[dinger]

Sorry deej, fingers were working before brain engaged.

PS,I've now edited it to what it should of read in the first place.DOH!!

[Jazzy Jase]

The Cooper S "only" got 12th place in Autocar's Best Drivers car of the year. Lets take a look at the opposition:

1. Lamborghini Diablo - £163,000
2. Porsche Boxter - £31,450
3. Ford Focus RS - 19,750
4. Lotus Elise 111S - £25,995
5. Honda NSX - £59,995
6. Mercedes SL55 AMG - £89,040
7. Porsche 996 Carrera - £61,618
8. Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive - £27,495
9. TVR Tamora - £36,500
10. Renault Clio Cup - £12,995
11. MGTF 160 - £19,995
12. MINI Cooper S - £14,500
13. Ford Mondeo ST220 - £21,745
14. Jaguar S-Type 4.2 - £36,000
15. Ferrari 575M - £160,845
16. Alfa Romeo 156 GTA - £27,900

Considering the price of the other cars I don't think the S did too badly. Only the Clio is a rival for the MINI (The Focus RS is a rival to a JCW S) and considering it's weight and lack of equipment, only managed to get round the track 1 second faster.

Auto Express still think the MINI is the best hot hatch. I patiently await EVO's verdict on the Clio Cup and Focus RS, either way I don't care, the Clio doesn't have enough kit and the Focus is too expensive.

[Dom mini cooper]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooper_S
The Cooper S "only" got 12th place in Autocar's Best Drivers car of the year. Lets take a look at the opposition:

1. Lamborghini Diablo - £163,000
2. Porsche Boxter - £31,450
3. Ford Focus RS - 19,750
4. Lotus Elise 111S - £25,995
5. Honda NSX - £59,995
6. Mercedes SL55 AMG - £89,040
7. Porsche 996 Carrera - £61,618
8. Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive - £27,495
9. TVR Tamora - £36,500
10. Renault Clio Cup - £12,995
11. MGTF 160 - £19,995
12. MINI Cooper S - £14,500
13. Ford Mondeo ST220 - £21,745
14. Jaguar S-Type 4.2 - £36,000
15. Ferrari 575M - £160,845
16. Alfa Romeo 156 GTA - £27,900

LMAO!!

Being 12th in that company is fine by me!! Now where's the CTR? LOL

Ok, the clio beat it....hummm...well I know which i'd rather have. No ABS?!!? thinner windscreen!!?!?! not for me ta But then I guess as a drivers car maybe these things are unimportant Interesting to note that the S is the cheapest car there second to the clio, which as i've said is only about 1/2 the car the S is...in terms of equipment and such. Even by the time you've added the chili pack to the S it's still a damn site cheaper than the rest.

Dom

[Jakx]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooper_S
The Cooper S "only" got 12th place in Autocar's Best Drivers car of the year. . . .
. . . .Considering the price of the other cars I don't think the S did too badly. Only the Clio is a rival for the MINI (The Focus RS is a rival to a JCW S) and considering it's weight and lack of equipment, only managed to get round the track 1 second faster.

Auto Express still think the MINI is the best hot hatch. I patiently await EVO's verdict on the Clio Cup and Focus RS, either way I don't care, the Clio doesn't have enough kit and the Focus is too expensive.

I agree with most of what you say Cooper_S . . . but surely we`re talking purely about the DRIVING EXPERIENCE here ?

I`d like to know why (suddenly) the S driving experience isn`t as special as it was when initially tested by Autocar . . . and why does Andrew Frankel now tag it as "overrated" ?

"Confirmed . . . " he said !

And - it`s not just down to lap times is it . . it`s how it got round the track 1 second slower than the Clio

[Jazzy Jase]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jakx
[b]I agree with most of what you say Cooper_S . . . but surely we`re talking purely about the DRIVING EXPERIENCE here ?

Autocar's test may have found the best drivers car in Britain, but how many people buy a car simply on the driving experience? Not many or we'd all be driving Caterham's. Most people cannot afford a Lamborghini and if I had a family I would not have a problem with buying the Mondeo even though I could have had an Elise.

I agree that the Clio may be faster and more fun to drive, but I know where I would rather be when sitting in a traffic jam on a hot day.

Quote:

I`d like to know why (suddenly) the S driving experience isn`t as special as it was when initially tested by Autocar . . . and why does Andrew Frankel now tag it as "overrated" ?

The driving experience may not be what it was since it was launched because the initial novelty may have worn off.

As the journos get more familiar with a car they learn its short-comings - a well kitted S is expensive and impractical.

The Focus RS and Clio Cup have moved the game on slightly (OK, a lot in the RS's case).

It happens with every car, especially ones hyped as much as the MINI.

Don't get me wrong I don't think the Cooper S is the best thing since sliced bread, and I must admit to being slightly disapointed with the performance of my S, but it would still take £26k (S2000) to get me to drive another car.

[deej]

Quote:

Originally posted by dinger
Sorry deej, fingers were working before brain engaged.

PS,I've now edited it to what it should of read in the first place.DOH!!

gracias senooor Dinger
"coming Mr Fawlty"

[Jakx]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooper_S


Autocar's test may have found the best drivers car in Britain, but how many people buy a car simply on the driving experience? Not many or we'd all be driving Caterham's. Most people cannot afford a Lamborghini and if I had a family I would not have a problem with buying the Mondeo even though I could have had an Elise.

I agree that the Clio may be faster and more fun to drive, but I know where I would rather be when sitting in a traffic jam on a hot day.



The driving experience may not be what it was since it was launched because the initial novelty may have worn off.

As the journos get more familiar with a car they learn its short-comings - a well kitted S is expensive and impractical.

The Focus RS and Clio Cup have moved the game on slightly (OK, a lot in the RS's case).

It happens with every car, especially ones hyped as much as the MINI.

Don't get me wrong I don't think the Cooper S is the best thing since sliced bread, and I must admit to being slightly disapointed with the performance of my S, but it would still take £26k (S2000) to get me to drive another car.

Cooper_S - I agree with everything you`ve just said.

And, also . . . fickle lot the average motoring journo/tester . . . "depreciation? - what`s that? "

[R1]

I like the MINI and think its the best drivers car out there for the money!!

At the end of the day that's all I give a toss about!!


I do think the "S" should have been more powerfull "out of the box" though!! I still wouldn't trade my Cooper for one ......... yet!

[minimatt]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooper_S
The Cooper S "only" got 12th place in Autocar's Best Drivers car of the year. Lets take a look at the opposition:

1. Lamborghini Diablo - £163,000
2. Porsche Boxter - £31,450
3. Ford Focus RS - 19,750
4. Lotus Elise 111S - £25,995
5. Honda NSX - £59,995
6. Mercedes SL55 AMG - £89,040
7. Porsche 996 Carrera - £61,618
8. Subaru Impreza STi Prodrive - £27,495
9. TVR Tamora - £36,500
10. Renault Clio Cup - £12,995
11. MGTF 160 - £19,995
12. MINI Cooper S - £14,500
13. Ford Mondeo ST220 - £21,745
14. Jaguar S-Type 4.2 - £36,000
15. Ferrari 575M - £160,845
16. Alfa Romeo 156 GTA - £27,900

errrr..... hands up all those who'd rather have a Focus RS (postion 3) over a Ferrari 575M (postion 15)???????

Thought so.

What the hell are they on about???

[jamiesim]

The thing that concerns me is that our baby beemer got beat by a MGF!!! Whats that all about....

Anyway the best drivers car about is probably the BMW M coupe... and I don;t think I saw the M3 on the list either!!! Quite surprised to see the Boxster quite so high too even though I do love it and fingers crossed will have one of those with an S on the back come 2005!!!

Anyhows Autocar is a load of shat!!! If it says it in EVO or CAR I'll pay attention otherwise **** off!!!

[Kinster]

lol, getting beat by a clio

[dietcokeplease]

Quote:

Originally posted by jamiesim
The thing that concerns me is that our baby beemer got beat by a MGF!!! Whats that all about....

Anyhows Autocar is a load of shat!!! If it says it in EVO or CAR I'll pay attention otherwise **** off!!!

The MGF doesn't have the design constraints of the MINI, that is, 4 seats and practicality. It also appeals better to the motoring journo fascists....a proper car is rear wheel drive and to that end the MGF has the right drive and the engine mounted in a superior position.

I agree that Autocar is er..disappointing [biting tongue]. They do seem to love themselves too much and are a bit aloof.

The major critic of the S is Phil Bennett, the Proton Petronas BTCC driver. Phil wrote a letter in to Autocar which was published a couple of months back. He said that he couldn't see the fuss over the S. It seems strange then to allow prominent comment on the S from a biased critic when a neutral journo may have done better.

At the end of the day most of us live in the real world. We have to buy, finance, and put our own fuel into our own cars. It seems that Autocar journos forget the ownership aspect and may as well live in another world.

[eBrit]

Look Guys....it's quite straight forward.

When you are asked to write about the wonderful MINI Cooper S AFTER another 50 journalist have been preferred (and hired) by Motor Magazines to you....can you just be "Mr. Echo"? No!

So you have to take an opposite tack just to seem relevant.

It is just like Shakespeare critics. What's the point of saying Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare these days. Noow..it just doesn't sell. Try Shakespeare was REALLY written by

Marlowe, or
Bacon, or
Elizabeth I, or
Sir Walter Raleigh...et al


Oh the need for journalistc fiction...

eBrit

[DaveH]

Bull! the S is a fabulous car.... I know...I'm putting 19K of mine and my wifes hard earned money towards one, I dont need any sour faced journo telling me what to buy, I live in the real world and will make my own decisions...rant over D.

[Dom mini cooper]

I bought that copy of autocar today. IMHO Autocar really does seem weak to me...I dunno what they're on. To be honest being beat by the MG doesn't bother me as it's a different type of car altogether.

The clio frankly annoys me slightly...in the magazine they are constantly compairing to two and it's not really fair, if it was a standard clio then fine but it's not it's a stripped out track day car, which IMHO isn't a fair comparison. If there was such a thing as a club sport S then that would be fairer. (drools)

I dunno I think autocar are just trying to be different. I can't say I honestly blame them but they do seem to of lost the plot somewhat. However what I like is the fact that the CTR isn't in there

Dom

[Jakx]

Quote:

Originally posted by dietcokeplease
. . . most of us live in the real world. We have to buy, finance, and put our own fuel into our own cars. It seems that Autocar journos forget the ownership aspect and may as well live in another world.

Exactly dcp . . . that`s the main thing that p***** me off about journo`s like Steve Cropley and his like - always banging-on about what smashing spanking new cars they`re currently driving around in that we can`t . . . . grrrrrr !

All those £2.10`s we put their way . . !

Makes yer wince dunnit . . . Autocar at times - AutoExpress is much more `down-to-earth` !