MINI2

bob corbishley · Feb 26th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Dont worry, Autocar did a small car group test a few weeks back (Fiat vs Twingo vs Mazda2) and the the Mazda won by miles. They did do a little side note about the Fiat vs Mini and didn't take it too far due to the price difference but the Mini was in a different league to the Fiat.

Dont forget F.I.A.T. = Fix It Again Tomorrow

JamesWhelan · Feb 26th, 2008, 12:36 PM

I honestly thought the One would trouce the 500, and was very surprised to see the 500 post a quicker lap time, as the MINI does have a very good chassis. Perhaps the 500's optional wide tyres gave it the extra grip required?

Having driven MINIs (and Minis) over the years, I currently own a new 500, and can say that the 500 is a better proposition for a "very small" car than both the MINI/Mini. The MINI is really too big to make any direct comparison (should be compared with Golfs, etc), and the Mini is unrealistic for modern use as a 2+2 (in fact we sold our Mini 30 to make way for the 500). They are very different cars aimed at different things.

Let's be honest - the "battle" is really about "how superficial are you about wanting the latest chic accessory". The 500 wins that one no sweat. My wife is that superficial.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goonery (original)

I think 'more alive' means more likely to leave you less alive

The 500 has a NCAP 5* rating. Not that it means much, as these ratings are all too contrived for the real world, but if the worst happens it's impressive for such a small car.

Mark Elvin · Feb 26th, 2008, 12:45 PM

I did test drive both a Mini, a Clubman & a 500.

The Minis were different cars to the 500, but when it came down to it I couldn't figure out where te extra £3000 was going, and Mini's are fairly common now.

I like both cars though.

Paul · Feb 26th, 2008, 12:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by JamesWhelan (original)

The MINI is really too big to make any direct comparison (should be compared with Golfs, etc), and the Mini is unrealistic for modern use as a 2+2 (in fact we sold our Mini 30 to make way for the 500). They are very different cars aimed at different things.

The MINI is smaller than I think you think, it's dimensions are not considerably bigger than a Ford Ka, and quite a bit smaller than the Golf class of cars.

Fizzoid · Feb 26th, 2008, 01:25 PM

Yeah, it's a fair bit smaller than a Golf, and it's a even a bit smaller than the Polo

JamesWhelan · Feb 26th, 2008, 02:03 PM

OK, maybe not as big as a Golf, but the MINI is very big and heavy for what was meant to be a Mini repacement.

In that respect one has to give credit to the 500 for being a better "modern equivalent". However, they are both great machines!

Paul · Feb 26th, 2008, 03:28 PM

Better modern equivalent? I've argued this on NF500 too, as I think they both kind of 'fail' in that regard.

Fiat 500.... Built in Poland, with a front mounted, water cooled engine. MINI... Built in England, front engine, FWD.. But then you could argue for and against both for their retro scores..

tonywalk · Feb 26th, 2008, 03:57 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original)

Better modern equivalent? I've argued this on NF500 too, as I think they both kind of 'fail' in that regard.

Fiat 500.... Built in Poland, with a front mounted, water cooled engine. MINI... Built in England, front engine, FWD.. But then you could argue for and against both for their retro scores..

But don't forget it's not the first 500 built in Poland with a front mounted, water cooled engine.

rainbowdreamer · Feb 26th, 2008, 03:58 PM

Fiat 500 = very, very, very girly!

Fizzoid · Feb 26th, 2008, 04:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by rainbowdreamer (original)

Fiat 500 = very, very, very girly!

I quite like it!

Prowse · Feb 26th, 2008, 04:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original)

The MINI is smaller than I think you think, it's dimensions are not considerably bigger than a Ford Ka, and quite a bit smaller than the Golf class of cars.

I'm amused that 5th Gear commented that the 500 has more room in the rear of the car. Not true. I (at 6' 2") can easily fit in any Mini. I do not fit at all in the 500, not even close, there is no rear headroom, I'd estimate anyone over 5'8" won't fit in the back.

Different class of car at the end of the day, not really in competition.

When the Arbarth comes out, I'm betting they'll pitch-it against the current Cooper, in which case the 500 will win again. Guess they won't want to lose all of that lovely advertising money from the Fiat group.

*** What would be interesting to see would be the lap times for the old MINI One, Cooper, Cooper S and JCW on similar spec tyres, etc.

Goonery · Feb 26th, 2008, 05:24 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Mark Elvin (original)

Not really true, as the 500 is the first small car to get an Ncap 5 star rating.

Well if its NCAP ratings that keep you on the road when cornering a bit too hard sometimes then the 500 is a much better car

chrisandjax · Feb 26th, 2008, 05:27 PM

Is there still a repeat of the programme?

The last series was repeated at midnight on a Tuesday?

mister.t · Feb 26th, 2008, 05:38 PM

Paul, when you say that both cars 'fail' as modern equivalents - I think the word fail can be held to the VW Beetle

Besides, has there ever been a successful resurrection that was exactly the same as its predecessor? Once again, I like, and respect both cars greatly, I just prefer the Mini. Why? Because I can/do

Shaun · Feb 26th, 2008, 05:51 PM

Predictable as Paul said.

Wonder if they are ever going to point out that many great road cars dont do well on racetracks and Vice Versa. Its totally unsubjective they dont even give a record of lap times to compare.

On the originality according to The Mail on Sunday the front engined fiat is a truer recreation of the original than the Mini.

I saw one of those Campers yesterday too I saw the 07 plate and did a double take.

Paul · Feb 26th, 2008, 06:17 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mister.t (original)

Paul, when you say that both cars 'fail' as modern equivalents - I think the word fail can be held to the VW Beetle

Besides, has there ever been a successful resurrection that was exactly the same as its predecessor? Once again, I like, and respect both cars greatly, I just prefer the Mini. Why? Because I can/do

I said it could be argued they both fail, not they both do. I think they both work really well, in different ways, as modern interpretations of an old classic.

Now, if they made a modern/retro camper van that looks anything like some of the concepts they've come up with, powered in carrot juice or some such eco-fuel, then sign me up too!

Shaun · Feb 26th, 2008, 06:24 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original)

I said it could be argued they both fail, not they both do. I think they both work really well, in different ways, as modern interpretations of an old classic.

Now, if they made a modern/retro camper van that looks anything like some of the concepts they've come up with, powered in carrot juice or some such eco-fuel, then sign me up too!

oh yeah

http://www.autospies.com/images/user...t-1280x960.jpg

Smokingkills · Feb 26th, 2008, 06:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Goonery (original)

Well if its NCAP ratings that keep you on the road when cornering a bit too hard sometimes then the 500 is a much better car

Ncap won't keep it on the road if you take a corner a little too hard. But the new Bosch 8.1 abs system will!

500 really is a fantastically safe, agile car.

Still find it pointless putting the 2 1.4s against each other. Cooper S Vs Abarth now thats the interesting one. Fiat need to pull their finger out and hurry up release it.

Scrogg · Feb 26th, 2008, 07:21 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Smokingkills (original)

Ncap won't keep it on the road if you take a corner a little too hard.

It takes a while to get used to when Goonery is being sarcastic or not, but once you do it's pretty obvious!

Goonery · Feb 26th, 2008, 07:24 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Scrogg (original)

It takes a while to get used to when Goonery is being sarcastic or not, but once you do it's pretty obvious!

Sarcasm is apparently the lowest form of wit, but at least it is wit

Feb 26th, 2008, 12:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
JamesWhelan MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Guildford Local Time: 02:24 PM Posts: 44 Offline	I honestly thought the One would trouce the 500, and was very surprised to see the 500 post a quicker lap time, as the MINI does have a very good chassis. Perhaps the 500's optional wide tyres gave it the extra grip required? Having driven MINIs (and Minis) over the years, I currently own a new 500, and can say that the 500 is a better proposition for a "very small" car than both the MINI/Mini. The MINI is really too big to make any direct comparison (should be compared with Golfs, etc), and the Mini is unrealistic for modern use as a 2+2 (in fact we sold our Mini 30 to make way for the 500). They are very different cars aimed at different things. Let's be honest - the "battle" is really about "how superficial are you about wanting the latest chic accessory". The 500 wins that one no sweat. My wife is that superficial. Quote: Originally Posted by Goonery (original) I think 'more alive' means more likely to leave you less alive The 500 has a NCAP 5* rating. Not that it means much, as these ratings are all too contrived for the real world, but if the worst happens it's impressive for such a small car. Last edited by JamesWhelan : Feb 26th, 2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Cackhandedness

Feb 26th, 2008, 12:58 PM	#24 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 46,129 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by JamesWhelan (original) The MINI is really too big to make any direct comparison (should be compared with Golfs, etc), and the Mini is unrealistic for modern use as a 2+2 (in fact we sold our Mini 30 to make way for the 500). They are very different cars aimed at different things. The MINI is smaller than I think you think, it's dimensions are not considerably bigger than a Ford Ka, and quite a bit smaller than the Golf class of cars. Trained Monkeys - New Fiat 500

Feb 26th, 2008, 03:28 PM	#27 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 46,129 Offline	Better modern equivalent? I've argued this on NF500 too, as I think they both kind of 'fail' in that regard. Fiat 500.... Built in Poland, with a front mounted, water cooled engine. MINI... Built in England, front engine, FWD.. But then you could argue for and against both for their retro scores.. Trained Monkeys - New Fiat 500

Feb 26th, 2008, 03:57 PM	#28 (permalink)
tonywalk MINI2 Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 19 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original) Better modern equivalent? I've argued this on NF500 too, as I think they both kind of 'fail' in that regard. Fiat 500.... Built in Poland, with a front mounted, water cooled engine. MINI... Built in England, front engine, FWD.. But then you could argue for and against both for their retro scores.. But don't forget it's not the first 500 built in Poland with a front mounted, water cooled engine. Now: (unnamed as yet) is a 55 MCS EBlue+Chili Previous: VBH was a 52 MC Chili red+Chili

Feb 26th, 2008, 03:58 PM	#29 (permalink)
rainbowdreamer MINI2 Regular Join Date: Apr 2003 Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 263 Offline	Fiat 500 = very, very, very girly! Rainbow Dreamer 2005 Cooper S Convertible

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Feb 26th, 2008, 12:35 PM	#21
bob corbishley MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2007 Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 138 Offline	Dont worry, Autocar did a small car group test a few weeks back (Fiat vs Twingo vs Mazda2) and the the Mazda won by miles. They did do a little side note about the Fiat vs Mini and didn't take it too far due to the price difference but the Mini was in a different league to the Fiat. Dont forget F.I.A.T. = Fix It Again Tomorrow

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Feb 26th, 2008, 12:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
Mark Elvin MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Local Time: 02:24 PM Posts: 5 Offline	I did test drive both a Mini, a Clubman & a 500. The Minis were different cars to the 500, but when it came down to it I couldn't figure out where te extra £3000 was going, and Mini's are fairly common now. I like both cars though.

Feb 26th, 2008, 01:25 PM	#25 (permalink)
Fizzoid MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: London Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 144 Offline	Yeah, it's a fair bit smaller than a Golf, and it's a even a bit smaller than the Polo

Feb 26th, 2008, 02:03 PM	#26 (permalink)
JamesWhelan MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Guildford Local Time: 02:24 PM Posts: 44 Offline	OK, maybe not as big as a Golf, but the MINI is very big and heavy for what was meant to be a Mini repacement. In that respect one has to give credit to the 500 for being a better "modern equivalent". However, they are both great machines!

Feb 26th, 2008, 04:10 PM	#30 (permalink)
Fizzoid MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: London Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 144 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by rainbowdreamer (original) Fiat 500 = very, very, very girly! I quite like it!

Feb 26th, 2008, 04:48 PM	#31 (permalink)
Prowse MINI2 Master Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Lancs Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 1,481 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original) The MINI is smaller than I think you think, it's dimensions are not considerably bigger than a Ford Ka, and quite a bit smaller than the Golf class of cars. I'm amused that 5th Gear commented that the 500 has more room in the rear of the car. Not true. I (at 6' 2") can easily fit in any Mini. I do not fit at all in the 500, not even close, there is no rear headroom, I'd estimate anyone over 5'8" won't fit in the back. Different class of car at the end of the day, not really in competition. When the Arbarth comes out, I'm betting they'll pitch-it against the current Cooper, in which case the 500 will win again. Guess they won't want to lose all of that lovely advertising money from the Fiat group. *** What would be interesting to see would be the lap times for the old MINI One, Cooper, Cooper S and JCW on similar spec tyres, etc.

Feb 26th, 2008, 05:24 PM	#32 (permalink)
Goonery MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2003 Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 13,610 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark Elvin (original) Not really true, as the 500 is the first small car to get an Ncap 5 star rating. Well if its NCAP ratings that keep you on the road when cornering a bit too hard sometimes then the 500 is a much better car

Feb 26th, 2008, 05:27 PM	#33 (permalink)
chrisandjax ..just for me and my dawg Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Legoland Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 4,857 Offline	Is there still a repeat of the programme? The last series was repeated at midnight on a Tuesday? WHO CAN YOU SPOT? http://www.miniadventureworld.com

Feb 26th, 2008, 05:38 PM	#34 (permalink)
mister.t Ambitious, but useless Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nowhere exciting Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 2,013 Offline	Paul, when you say that both cars 'fail' as modern equivalents - I think the word fail can be held to the VW Beetle Besides, has there ever been a successful resurrection that was exactly the same as its predecessor? Once again, I like, and respect both cars greatly, I just prefer the Mini. Why? Because I can/do 2007 R56 Cooper

Feb 26th, 2008, 05:51 PM	#35 (permalink)
Shaun Mr Big Stuff Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Oldham Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 3,142 Offline	Predictable as Paul said. Wonder if they are ever going to point out that many great road cars dont do well on racetracks and Vice Versa. Its totally unsubjective they dont even give a record of lap times to compare. On the originality according to The Mail on Sunday the front engined fiat is a truer recreation of the original than the Mini. I saw one of those Campers yesterday too I saw the 07 plate and did a double take. http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaun-g/

Feb 26th, 2008, 06:17 PM	#36 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 46,129 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by mister.t (original) Paul, when you say that both cars 'fail' as modern equivalents - I think the word fail can be held to the VW Beetle Besides, has there ever been a successful resurrection that was exactly the same as its predecessor? Once again, I like, and respect both cars greatly, I just prefer the Mini. Why? Because I can/do I said it could be argued they both fail, not they both do. I think they both work really well, in different ways, as modern interpretations of an old classic. Now, if they made a modern/retro camper van that looks anything like some of the concepts they've come up with, powered in carrot juice or some such eco-fuel, then sign me up too! Trained Monkeys - New Fiat 500

Feb 26th, 2008, 06:24 PM	#37 (permalink)
Shaun Mr Big Stuff Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Oldham Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 3,142 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original) I said it could be argued they both fail, not they both do. I think they both work really well, in different ways, as modern interpretations of an old classic. Now, if they made a modern/retro camper van that looks anything like some of the concepts they've come up with, powered in carrot juice or some such eco-fuel, then sign me up too! oh yeah http://www.autospies.com/images/user...t-1280x960.jpg http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaun-g/

Feb 26th, 2008, 06:45 PM	#38 (permalink)
Smokingkills MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Local Time: 02:24 PM Posts: 4 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Goonery (original) Well if its NCAP ratings that keep you on the road when cornering a bit too hard sometimes then the 500 is a much better car Ncap won't keep it on the road if you take a corner a little too hard. But the new Bosch 8.1 abs system will! 500 really is a fantastically safe, agile car. Still find it pointless putting the 2 1.4s against each other. Cooper S Vs Abarth now thats the interesting one. Fiat need to pull their finger out and hurry up release it.

Feb 26th, 2008, 07:21 PM	#39 (permalink)
Scrogg Not on a Tuesday Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gloucester Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 12,381 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Smokingkills (original) Ncap won't keep it on the road if you take a corner a little too hard. It takes a while to get used to when Goonery is being sarcastic or not, but once you do it's pretty obvious! 39

Feb 26th, 2008, 07:24 PM	#40 (permalink)
Goonery MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Aug 2003 Local Time: 03:24 PM Posts: 13,610 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Scrogg (original) It takes a while to get used to when Goonery is being sarcastic or not, but once you do it's pretty obvious! Sarcasm is apparently the lowest form of wit, but at least it is wit

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