MINI2

MARK TAYLOR · Mar 24th, 2008, 09:16 PM

r53 jcw would have smoked the clio. 210 bhp as opposed to 190 in new works and no turbo lag.

mikeythemini · Mar 24th, 2008, 09:17 PM

Should have been supercharged

MARK TAYLOR · Mar 24th, 2008, 09:21 PM

also forgot to mention the money you will loose on a clio,build quality is rubbish,stripped out[standard dash no aircon] and its a renault.i know which one i would rather have.
cheers mark

slim_boy_fat · Mar 24th, 2008, 09:22 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original)

Disappointed..... once again they are rubbish! Why do they need to swap drivers? I'm sure Jason being a racing driver will be better that tiff at driving! they need the stig

What a stupid comment re Tiff.

You guys are funny, just take it the Clio is bettrer round that particular track.

astilla · Mar 24th, 2008, 09:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by gpmick (original)

Would have been a fairer test will the same driver

Indeed... If Tiff hadn't been ar$ing around. I didn't really care which one came out on top but to do a test you have to use the same driver.

GarryThomas · Mar 24th, 2008, 10:17 PM

Im sure it will take many years for Renault to lose there poor after sales
customer care, with the flip up bonnet on the 2004 Clio.
(BBC Watchdog report ) Would 12000 owners buy 2008 Clio ?

At least you can see where you are going.

MINI-Morgan · Mar 24th, 2008, 11:01 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by slim_boy_fat (original)

What a stupid comment re Tiff.

You guys are funny, just take it the Clio is bettrer round that particular track.

Going to explain? Id bet on Jason any day....

Personally I dont mind which car won! I just hate fifth gears rubbish tests! Top Gear atleast use the same track and the same driver who drives properly and doesnt mess about.

I did laugh when Jason worried tiff though with his really late braking.

Fin · Mar 24th, 2008, 11:20 PM

I didn't see it tonight.

But one thing is for sure: you can't have a fair comparison when changing more than one variable at a time.

They need to use one driver.

NeoTheOne · Mar 25th, 2008, 12:03 AM

Quite enjoyed the show tonight!

I don't really think there is a 1 second difference on a small track like that between Tiff and JP's driving abilities. Tiff even said he couldn't get close no matter how hard he tried.

The Clio's brakes and chassis are what makes it so fast. It's not noticably slower in a straight line as the showed by having about the same speed at a certain point (104mph I think), but any straight line advantage gained by the Mini is lost the moment a corner arrives!

Tunster · Mar 25th, 2008, 08:39 AM

YouTube - Renault Clio 197 CUP vs Mini Cooper S...

Here you go guys

.

Ant FR · Mar 25th, 2008, 08:46 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original)

Going to explain? Id bet on Jason any day....

Personally I dont mind which car won! I just hate fifth gears rubbish tests! Top Gear atleast use the same track and the same driver who drives properly and doesnt mess about.

I did laugh when Jason worried tiff though with his really late braking.

Mate, Tiff has a lot more experience than Jason.

He's had 2 F1 drives back in the 80's, alright at the back of the grid and i think the Monaco one he did'nt qualify for start ( back in the days of the 2 second rules). He's also raced at le mans and done a lot of saloon car work. Ok never a podium driver, but if he was would he really be TV presenting. No different to the Stig, as Ben Collins has never been a great driver.

You are just assuming Plato is better, to be honest Plato is not the best BTCC driver either,

i have heard a rumour that plato and needell are doing a visit to the Ring in the next series.

MINI-Morgan · Mar 25th, 2008, 11:22 AM

Good video!

Well if there is 7 seconds difference around that tiny handling course then im a monkeys uncle! 95% drivers skill in the first test. I was hoping Russ Swift was going to do it......

I am assuming he is better as he displays more skill at driving a front wheel drive car. He is a podium driver though is he not? And the stig is one person and will display the same skill at driving two seperate cars so would be fair instead of 7seconds difference we saw with tiff and jason. Thats all im saying!

I dont mind that the Clio won like I said... its the tests I dislike. And the strange car mixes they make! The clio should have been the clio sport and not the cup as the cup is a setup car which the works isnt. The Cup is like the proper Works and the GP models.

Wonder if he pressed the button or not??

But hey all personal opinion anyway!

Now bring the Ring!

Fin · Mar 25th, 2008, 11:33 AM

I must admit, the white Clio with the black alloys looked pretty cool, and quite composed on the track. Still couldn't own one though.

Good points raised MINI-Morgan

neilobe · Mar 25th, 2008, 01:17 PM

As said, not a fairer enough test because of the change of drivers, also, im sure Tiff did say though, the mini is quicker in a straight line..

uncle albert · Mar 25th, 2008, 01:48 PM

I assume the R56 MCS still comes with runflats? Certainly not going to help its case!

Tobes · Mar 25th, 2008, 03:45 PM

Trust me - you'll only ever buy one Renault in your life!

You learn from your mistakes!

Cars may well look ok from a design perspective but they are built by monkeys who dont give a dam, and serviced buy dealers who dont give a dam.

Tommo · Mar 25th, 2008, 05:15 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by uncle albert (original)

I assume the R56 MCS still comes with runflats? Certainly not going to help its case!

With the amount of time he spent on the grass he'd have been better on knobblies

They could have tested one with a diff as well Tiff complains about the inside wheel spinning ?

airbusA346 · Mar 25th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original)

Disappointed..... once again they are rubbish! Why do they need to swap drivers? I'm sure Jason being a racing driver will be better that tiff at driving! they need the stig

Tiff is/was a racing driver.

Citro · Mar 25th, 2008, 05:58 PM

Jesus, guys... Despite being on a MINI forum, we should always make a correct judgement. I don’t see any shame on losing to the Clio. Renault has always been known for the wonderful chassis they produce. Renault Turbo 2; Renault GT Turbo; Renault Clio Williams; Renault Clio cups... If the MINI would have won, it should also be by a very tight margin. The way I see it... two great chassis, different engine conceptions. 1.6 Turbo against a 2.0 aspirated. The ones telling it should be the R53 because of the non-existent Turbo-lag should be aware that the new Turbo Engine has got its torque peak WAY earlier than the Supercharged one (~1500 Rpms). The turbo-lag on the new petrol engines is almost non-existent.
As they are both excellent chassis, this is the way I see the Pros and Cons regarding each other:

MINI’s Pros:

Better power delivery (due to the much better Torque “line”) which helps him out the bends...

MINI’s Cons:

Understeer

Clio’s Pros:

Very well balanced chassis, agile, very controllable and “grippy”

Clio’s Cons:

Worst power delivery (Rev hungry engine)

Cheers,
Citro

super c00per · Mar 25th, 2008, 08:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jon vital (original)

Were they counting that crappy lap where Tiff went on the grass and lost about 4 seconds?

Yes, thats the lap they counted!!! GRR

Mar 24th, 2008, 09:17 PM	#22 (permalink)
mikeythemini I can't get no sleep My Classifieds Join Date: May 2002 Location: Capital of Culture Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 8,954 Online	Should have been supercharged Lakes Tour 2008 coming soon Are you ready for Lakes 2008 - details soon

Mar 24th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#25 (permalink)
astilla Hmmmmm Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Worcestershire Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 152 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by gpmick (original) Would have been a fairer test will the same driver Indeed... If Tiff hadn't been ar$ing around. I didn't really care which one came out on top but to do a test you have to use the same driver. 1988 Mini 'Designer' & 2008 MINI Cooper 'S' Works

Mar 24th, 2008, 10:17 PM	#26 (permalink)
GarryThomas MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Mar 2006 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 67 Offline	Renault V Mini Im sure it will take many years for Renault to lose there poor after sales customer care, with the flip up bonnet on the 2004 Clio. (BBC Watchdog report ) Would 12000 owners buy 2008 Clio ? At least you can see where you are going.

Mar 24th, 2008, 11:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
MINI-Morgan MINI Obsessed... My Classifieds Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southampton, Hants Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 4,610 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by slim_boy_fat (original) What a stupid comment re Tiff. You guys are funny, just take it the Clio is bettrer round that particular track. Going to explain? Id bet on Jason any day.... Personally I dont mind which car won! I just hate fifth gears rubbish tests! Top Gear atleast use the same track and the same driver who drives properly and doesnt mess about. I did laugh when Jason worried tiff though with his really late braking. One Man, One Project......find out what happens next at MINIProject.co.uk For MINIs in the south it can only be South Coast New MINI Club

Mar 25th, 2008, 11:22 AM	#32 (permalink)
MINI-Morgan MINI Obsessed... My Classifieds Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southampton, Hants Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 4,610 Offline	Good video! Well if there is 7 seconds difference around that tiny handling course then im a monkeys uncle! 95% drivers skill in the first test. I was hoping Russ Swift was going to do it...... I am assuming he is better as he displays more skill at driving a front wheel drive car. He is a podium driver though is he not? And the stig is one person and will display the same skill at driving two seperate cars so would be fair instead of 7seconds difference we saw with tiff and jason. Thats all im saying! I dont mind that the Clio won like I said... its the tests I dislike. And the strange car mixes they make! The clio should have been the clio sport and not the cup as the cup is a setup car which the works isnt. The Cup is like the proper Works and the GP models. Wonder if he pressed the button or not?? But hey all personal opinion anyway! Now bring the Ring! One Man, One Project......find out what happens next at MINIProject.co.uk For MINIs in the south it can only be South Coast New MINI Club

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Mar 24th, 2008, 09:16 PM	#21
MARK TAYLOR MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2007 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 64 Offline	r53 jcw would have smoked the clio. 210 bhp as opposed to 190 in new works and no turbo lag.

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Mar 24th, 2008, 09:21 PM	#23 (permalink)
MARK TAYLOR MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Jul 2007 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 64 Offline	also forgot to mention the money you will loose on a clio,build quality is rubbish,stripped out[standard dash no aircon] and its a renault.i know which one i would rather have. cheers mark

Mar 24th, 2008, 09:22 PM	#24 (permalink)
slim_boy_fat MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Glasgow Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 119 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original) Disappointed..... once again they are rubbish! Why do they need to swap drivers? I'm sure Jason being a racing driver will be better that tiff at driving! they need the stig What a stupid comment re Tiff. You guys are funny, just take it the Clio is bettrer round that particular track.

Mar 24th, 2008, 11:20 PM	#28 (permalink)
Fin Giggity-goo! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cloudbase Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 2,520 Offline	I didn't see it tonight. But one thing is for sure: you can't have a fair comparison when changing more than one variable at a time. They need to use one driver.

Mar 25th, 2008, 12:03 AM	#29 (permalink)
NeoTheOne Gone blue and french :D Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newlands, Glasgow Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 260 Offline	Quite enjoyed the show tonight! I don't really think there is a 1 second difference on a small track like that between Tiff and JP's driving abilities. Tiff even said he couldn't get close no matter how hard he tried. The Clio's brakes and chassis are what makes it so fast. It's not noticably slower in a straight line as the showed by having about the same speed at a certain point (104mph I think), but any straight line advantage gained by the Mini is lost the moment a corner arrives!

Mar 25th, 2008, 08:39 AM	#30 (permalink)
Tunster MCS AB Owner! =D Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Essex, England Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 295 Offline	YouTube - Renault Clio 197 CUP vs Mini Cooper S... Here you go guys .

Mar 25th, 2008, 08:46 AM	#31 (permalink)
Ant FR MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Oct 2006 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 1,843 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original) Going to explain? Id bet on Jason any day.... Personally I dont mind which car won! I just hate fifth gears rubbish tests! Top Gear atleast use the same track and the same driver who drives properly and doesnt mess about. I did laugh when Jason worried tiff though with his really late braking. Mate, Tiff has a lot more experience than Jason. He's had 2 F1 drives back in the 80's, alright at the back of the grid and i think the Monaco one he did'nt qualify for start ( back in the days of the 2 second rules). He's also raced at le mans and done a lot of saloon car work. Ok never a podium driver, but if he was would he really be TV presenting. No different to the Stig, as Ben Collins has never been a great driver. You are just assuming Plato is better, to be honest Plato is not the best BTCC driver either, i have heard a rumour that plato and needell are doing a visit to the Ring in the next series.

Mar 25th, 2008, 11:33 AM	#33 (permalink)
Fin Giggity-goo! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cloudbase Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 2,520 Offline	I must admit, the white Clio with the black alloys looked pretty cool, and quite composed on the track. Still couldn't own one though. Good points raised MINI-Morgan

Mar 25th, 2008, 01:17 PM	#34 (permalink)
neilobe MINI2 Regular My Classifieds Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Herts Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 343 Offline	As said, not a fairer enough test because of the change of drivers, also, im sure Tiff did say though, the mini is quicker in a straight line..

Mar 25th, 2008, 01:48 PM	#35 (permalink)
uncle albert MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Herefrd/Bath/Cwmbran Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 809 Offline	I assume the R56 MCS still comes with runflats? Certainly not going to help its case!

Mar 25th, 2008, 03:45 PM	#36 (permalink)
Tobes MINI2 Senior My Classifieds Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hertfordshire Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 383 Offline	Trust me - you'll only ever buy one Renault in your life! You learn from your mistakes! Cars may well look ok from a design perspective but they are built by monkeys who dont give a dam, and serviced buy dealers who dont give a dam.

Mar 25th, 2008, 05:15 PM	#37 (permalink)
Tommo twin scroll Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Up North Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 145 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by uncle albert (original) I assume the R56 MCS still comes with runflats? Certainly not going to help its case! With the amount of time he spent on the grass he'd have been better on knobblies They could have tested one with a diff as well Tiff complains about the inside wheel spinning ?

Mar 25th, 2008, 05:32 PM	#38 (permalink)
airbusA346 Confused By Certain Users Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stone, Staffordshire Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 7,642 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original) Disappointed..... once again they are rubbish! Why do they need to swap drivers? I'm sure Jason being a racing driver will be better that tiff at driving! they need the stig Tiff is/was a racing driver. Owner Of The Last Word Of 2007 :: My Website The Orange Blob As My Avatar Is The Mascot Of JetAlliance Racing Called 'Carli'.

Mar 25th, 2008, 05:58 PM	#39 (permalink)
Citro MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 19 Offline	Jesus, guys... Despite being on a MINI forum, we should always make a correct judgement. I don’t see any shame on losing to the Clio. Renault has always been known for the wonderful chassis they produce. Renault Turbo 2; Renault GT Turbo; Renault Clio Williams; Renault Clio cups... If the MINI would have won, it should also be by a very tight margin. The way I see it... two great chassis, different engine conceptions. 1.6 Turbo against a 2.0 aspirated. The ones telling it should be the R53 because of the non-existent Turbo-lag should be aware that the new Turbo Engine has got its torque peak WAY earlier than the Supercharged one (~1500 Rpms). The turbo-lag on the new petrol engines is almost non-existent. As they are both excellent chassis, this is the way I see the Pros and Cons regarding each other: MINI’s Pros: Better power delivery (due to the much better Torque “line”) which helps him out the bends... MINI’s Cons: Understeer Clio’s Pros: Very well balanced chassis, agile, very controllable and “grippy” Clio’s Cons: Worst power delivery (Rev hungry engine) Cheers, Citro

Mar 25th, 2008, 08:45 PM	#40 (permalink)
super c00per MiNi2 dEmOn My Classifieds Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The Shire Local Time: 11:03 PM Posts: 575 Online	Quote: Originally Posted by jon vital (original) Were they counting that crappy lap where Tiff went on the grass and lost about 4 seconds? Yes, thats the lap they counted!!! GRR

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