[wizbit]

I'll second that.

My Renault Megane was utter rubbish (electrics especially), so glad i traded it in for mini cooper

Quote: Originally Posted by Tobes (original)

Trust me - you'll only ever buy one Renault in your life!

You learn from your mistakes!

Cars may well look ok from a design perspective but they are built by monkeys who dont give a dam, and serviced buy dealers who dont give a dam.

[choccy20]

so what the Clio cup was quicker than the Mark 2 Cooper S around a track and some Ballard's. What they didn't tell any one is that the value of Renault's drops very quickly. If you go on the fifth gear web site they recommend the 182 Clio to the 197. I seem to recall reading an article when the mark 2 cooper S came out that the handling wasn't as good as the mark one its interesting to see that one of the options now is a limited slip dif. I quite like the look of the current Clio and the last version and have looked at buying a second hand one ie 182 or even a V6 but have resisted so far

[wozcoop]

5th Gear always seem to end up mismatching the challenges involving Minis... It obviously wasn't supposed to be a comparison of two cars in the same price or quality bracket. And add to that Toff Noodle doesn;t seem to have the skills of the other guy in these cars... he spent so much time on the grass ;-)

The stripped out Clio went well though!

[airbusA346]

I think they should have had Russ doing the Autotest (Is that what it is called).

[LMB]

Surprised the Clio was heavier......so much for a CUP.

One MAJOR thing that lets down the Clio's......no it's not that it's French........it's the dealerships.

[kmpowell]

There seems to be one glaring error that nobody has yet picked up on:

Before the test they showed both cars in a quarry standing still - you will note that the reg plate on the Mini was a '57' e.g. updated spec and LSD (it also had front spots and JCW wheels). The car they used in the test however was an '07', which co-incidentally is the same car that EVO tested months ago. EVO commented at the time that they wished it had LSD, and it transpired that the car was a VERY early '07 car without any of the September '07 revisions, and also didn't have LSD.

The difference between that and a post Sep 07 car with LSD is worlds apart, and on track the LSD is flawless (I should know I have one and do track days!).

Now, without wanting to sound like having sour grapes - if Tiff hadn't have gone on to the grass and had a car with all the updated spec and LSD, I think the result would have been VERY different, because lets face it Jason's lap in the Clio looked VERY good!

I can't help but feel that the whole thing was a little contrived?

[Japper]

Quote: Originally Posted by kmpowell (original)

I can't help but feel that the whole thing was a little contrived?

5th gear is allways contrived.

Also comparing a car on track rather than on a 'private' road is not really relevant to 95% of us. The R56JCW with similar drivers is the quiker point to point car. It also has a bit more 'safety' built inti the chassis and has more torque.............a feature that IMHO is very usefull at giving you the power to pull out of oversteer.

I used to have a Clio 16v years ago and when the rear end let go................it LET GO!

I've heard the 197 is tricky in this respect, which is not an issue on track, but not what you want when you hit cow dung on the apex of that medium - fast sweeper

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

YouTube - Renault Clio 197 CUP vs Mini Cooper S John Cooper works

Here you go guys .

Thanks for the link Tunster. It's really refreshing to watch 5th gear without either advertising breaks or the nausiating VBH! Marvellous!!

It's been said before, but without it being the same driver in both cars, whichever car had won, the results would have been meaningless

Starting from a position where neither car would be my own choice (so being relatively unbiased), the Renault simply looked too tall and MPV like to be taken seriously as a hot hatch; it just looked very silly going quickly!

[Tunster]

I've never understood the logic of Fifth Gear having two drivers using seperate cars. Maybe if they both test drove each car and got an average, it might be fairer comparing both of the cars.

I'd have a german influenced british classic car over a french bit of tat any day .

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tunster (original)

I've never understood the logic of Fifth Gear having two drivers using seperate cars. Maybe if they both test drove each car and got an average, it might be fairer comparing both of the cars.

As with TopGear, it's about making entertaining television, not about getting valid test results

Tigger.

[hoojkel]

Even Tiff Needell said that the Mini had a quicker straight line speed and was 100kg lighter than a barebone clio so wtf was he doing. It was plato who said it cornered better, maybe he can just take corners better than needell who liked the grass verges quite a lot. They must have greatly improved the cornering/ handling on this new clio ( remember clarkson testing the blue clio on top gear, went round corners on 3 wheels ). Should email top gear and get them to do a proper test with the stig.

[snuffy]

I've purposely used 10 minutes of my lunch break to look at the MINI forum and see the reaction to the 5th Gear program.

The RenaultSport Clio 197 Cup is a track car. It's also dirt cheap at about £12,500.

The MINI Cooper S Works is a different standard of car. Its expensive yet almost refined.

The RenaultSport brand is a completely different kettle of fish to BMW / MINI.

I prefer RS. It's more deciated to producing cars that their drivers want, and are pretty good at it. Look at the Clio Trophy, Clio R27, Megane 230 R26....where as BMW aren't - hence the complaints I read here about Turbo's etc.

by the way, RenaultSport cars are built in a different factory in Dieppe to your bog standard Renno, so pelase don't tar them all with the same brush.

[Tobes]

They still get services at the same dealers - who dont give a dam
Thats whay all renaults are in bottom 10% for JDPower satisfaction surveys (= build quality cr*p to start with)

Contrast that with the mini results Chalk and cheese + the mini is unique to look at compares to the euro blob clio that looks like every other supermini

1 second - who cares-

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

To be fair, the new Clio is a good looking car. Okay, I think that it's too tall to look credible as a hot hatch, but as a "cooking" Clio it's not a bad looking car.

The Clio does seem to attract a lot of interest from people who are interested in flash numbers though! You know the kind? The kind of people who like having "197" written somewhere on their car, because it's a bigger number than "183", so it must be better Heck, I was having a lot of fun driving a Citroen Berlingo diesel van yesterday and that only had 68bhp! Never has keeping up with the traffic demanded such concentration

[NeoTheOne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

The "197" should be a good choice for the insecure with little in the way of imagination

I find that a bit ironic coming from a MINI owner when every second car on the road these days is a MINI.

[neilobe]

Quote: Originally Posted by kmpowell (original)

There seems to be one glaring error that nobody has yet picked up on:

Before the test they showed both cars in a quarry standing still - you will note that the reg plate on the Mini was a '57' e.g. updated spec and LSD (it also had front spots and JCW wheels). The car they used in the test however was an '07', which co-incidentally is the same car that EVO tested months ago. EVO commented at the time that they wished it had LSD, and it transpired that the car was a VERY early '07 car without any of the September '07 revisions, and also didn't have LSD.

The difference between that and a post Sep 07 car with LSD is worlds apart, and on track the LSD is flawless (I should know I have one and do track days!).

Now, without wanting to sound like having sour grapes - if Tiff hadn't have gone on to the grass and had a car with all the updated spec and LSD, I think the result would have been VERY different, because lets face it Jason's lap in the Clio looked VERY good!

I can't help but feel that the whole thing was a little contrived?

Well spotted actually... your right the car sitting there at the start of the film was diffrent to the one that they actually took around the track, noticed thw wheels were different..

[NeoTheOne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Japper (original)

I used to have a Clio 16v years ago and when the rear end let go................it LET GO!

I've heard the 197 is tricky in this respect, which is not an issue on track, but not what you want when you hit cow dung on the apex of that medium - fast sweeper

The 197 isn't at all tricky in this respect. The back end isn't snappy at all like the previous generation Clio's had been. It's very progressive and controllable.

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by NeoTheOne (original)

I find that a bit ironic coming from a MINI owner when every second car on the road these days is a MINI.

That was meant to come out a little more tonge-in-cheek than it did. It actually came out completely offensive! Sorry; original post modified.

Tigger.

[Tobes]

I find the way Renault treats its customers with total contempt offensive! - both in the shabby way they assemble the cars and in the way the dealers treat you when things go wrong!

[tommo13]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

That was meant to come out a little more tonge-in-cheek than it did. It actually came out completely offensive! Sorry; original post modified.

Tigger.

It's good to see we can have a difference of opinion and still hold a rational grown up debate on this forum
I've just been on the RenaultSport forum and some of the pure drivel concerning our "Gay, expensive cars that where well and truly spanked on fifth gear" is moronic in the extreme. I can only assume there must be quite a few villages missing some idiots

One second round a track who gives a toss ? I really like the 197 it's a cracking car do I want one just because fifth gear reckon it was better ? No. Does anyone who bought one want to swap it for a mini ? probably not
We like, what we like I'm glad some people don't like mini's or we'd all have one. Lets get back to arguing amongst ourselves R53 v R56 etc and leave the 197's and VXR's to it
(Just in case anyone missed it that last bit is tongue in cheek)