Nationals and reclassification

[FlaggerStan]

After looking at the times turned in by the HS and DS Mini’s compared to other marque leaves me to beg the question. Maybe it’s the Cooper S that needs to be reclassified and not the standard Cooper. The Cooper seems to be correctly placed despite the objections of other car owners. The S is another problem. Three Coopers (King, Burns & Chiles) beat Brian’s time. Maybe the S, without an LSD, belongs in HS with the rest of us.

FlaggerStan

[Garfield]

Quite frankly, I left time out on the course.
BUT, before you go judging by simply reading the paper, you need to consider when each car ran. D Stock ran on Tues/Weds in the 5th/last heat. H Stock ran on Thurs/Friday in the 3rd heat.

Because the Pro Solo was more important to me, we ran the fresh tires in their prime during that. Then I used the same tires flipped inside out for the Nationals.

The Cooper S is a fast car, but there aren't many places on the autocross where that power can really be applied. For both the South and North courses, there was only ONE place where I think the Cooper S's power did anymore than a Cooper. This spot was on the North course which was after the second to last turn before the finish. It was, if driven correctly, a kinked straight-away for about 75 yards.

Where does this bring us? Well, I've already got a letter in to the SEB about reclassing the Cooper S to G Stock (as well as bringing the Celica GTS down to GS WITH the Celica GT).
There are plenty of competitive cars for D Stock, but none of them are FWD non-LSD cars.

Is it possible for the Cooper S to run faster than I made it this year? You bet. Could it ever be fast enough to come close in D Stock? Not a chance.
In autocross trim, my car is under 2500lbs. Funny, the Type R with it's LSD and it's 25hp more are ALSO under 2500lbs in autocross trim...

[scottgib]

I agree with Garfield that this would be the right class for the MCS, even though it will kill me.

In my region I pretty well own DS due to no real competition (sometimes no competition). In GS in my region I will be up against Robert Carpenter who was last year's GS national champ and came in second this year. He is definitely a better driver than me. Oh well, this will still be fun.

[FlaggerStan]

I maybe wrong but I think the judgement I made is probably the way that the SEB would look at it, as they don’t have much to go on except the time sheets and only from the Nationals. One would hope that they would also consider how the MCS does elsewhere.

I agree with you that the MCS doesn’t belong in DS and definitely would have a better chance in GS. I will be sending in a letter myself to the SEB to move the MCS to GS and keep the MC in HS.

I do understand that the course conditions change from day to day and from hour to hour. Dirty but cool course in the morning to clean warm in the afternoon. And it does make it difficult to compare times but you know there are people who are pressuring the SEB to make a decision about the Mini in both classes. And having an off day I too have left time on the course as last month I left enough time out there that I lost to a Del Slow er… Del So that I usually beat in HS. I just hope the SEB keeps their heads about reclassifying.

I do think some people take this all too seriously and this is suppose to be fun. You did have fun didn’t you?

Next year I will run San Diego, Atwater and I hope Topika in HS of course.

FlaggerStan

[Garfield]

Stan, you're missing the scary part and the reason I believe it should be reclassed:
I didn't say I had an "off" day, I had a great day, drove the **** out of the car. But, there was nothing left in my opinion. A few tenths, sure, but that's not an off day to me, that just means I didn't drive 100% perfect, as if anyone can usually claim that.

Anyway, they will judge my performance, and hopefully use it to reclass the car lower, but we'll see. Believe me, I was having the Cooper S reclass discussion with members of the SEB before I even drove the Solo II Nats, I was already aware it was misclassed.

Thanks,
Brian

[paddy]

What is the estimated time you will be running on Sunday??? It is still this Sunday correct???

[Garfield]

First group off, so approximately 9am.

Brian

[paddy]

I will try very hard to be there.

[jlm]

where?

[Garfield]

Washington, D.C. area, Fed Ex Field, where the Redskins play.

[districtofc]

im jumping on this thread a little late...but how do they initially classify cars? in most magazine tests the Celica GT-S does beat the Integra Type R...that is...in terms of numbers (acceleration, lateral..). does the scca base it's decision solely on numbers?

[FlaggerStan]

That is scary.

When you wrote the SEB did you send to to any particular member or just the SEB?

Another car I've got to get them to reclass is the 2003 Pontiac Vibe (non-GT 130hp). seems they classed it in GS but classed the PT Cruser in HS.

Unfair he cried...

[Garfield]

Both, spoke with Andy at the Nats and then emailed him. After that, I sent one to the SEB group email.

Initially, they have to base the classing on numbers or ANY collective and relevant autocross data they can get. From there, it can only be determined by how it does on the National level. Heck, if NOBODY drives the car Nationally, that says a lot also.

The fact of the matter is this: it takes a straight away for the Cooper S to be faster than a Cooper. For those of you who autocross, how many "straightaways" have you ever seen at a NORMAL/National autocross?

As I look back at every place I could try to put down power, I was never able to put it down until just before the next turn.

Brian

[olddad]

The problem is getting the power to the ground!!

[sdmidget]

Talk about a wheelie!!

(That's known as having your a** up it the air!! )