[gorditoautoxr]

Duhno if this is a racing or P&T topic... Looking forward to another season in GS with my MCS. I'm considering doing some of the most basic mods possible that are allowed in stock, planning on spending max of 1500 bucks. Things I'm considering:
Some lightweight 16s with Falken tires (1000)
H sport springs (200?)
Rear sway bar (200)

These are are allowed right? Anyone else do these mods in GS, and if so have you noticed a significant difference? Does it get rid of a good amount of the understeer, which I find almost unbearable?
Scott

[FWD-MX5]

The springs and rear sway are not legal in GS. You may want to consider a front bar off of a Cooper <$100 (check the marketplace). Since a rear bar is illegal reduce the grip of the front instead of increasing rear grip.
Wheels and tires is also a great start, but I would go with R compounds over Azeni, since you are buying new rims. Used VSpokes should be cheaper than Monzas or SSR Comp Rs and the hundreths of seconds you can save are not worth the $$$. The last $500 should be spent on Evolution driving school, if not that maybe yellow Konis. Hope this helps.
Chris

[scottgib]

No, those are not legal in GS (SCCA). As I remember the rules in my turkey tryptophan state of mind; on the S, only tires, shocks, wheels (with the same diameter, width, and within ¼" offset of stock) and air filter element are legal changes. Nothing else. The only adjustable shock that looks worthwhile is the Leda. I believe Koni's have to be removed from the S to be adjusted! It seems to me the rear shocks are what need to be changed for autoX. Not sure changing the fronts would do much. There are people more knowledgeable than me on these boards. Maybe they will share some info.

I run an S in GS rather successfully on a local basis. I use 16" Kumho ECSTA V700's and stock shocks. Leda's cost real money. I don't find understeer to be the biggest problem. Getting the inside front wheel hooked up in sweeping turns is my main problem. I suspect you need to break sooner, harder, and then turn. While the S doesn't rotate great, it can be done in a lot of turns that actually call for it. Play with the tire pressures.

Putting driving aside (80-90% of the dif. in autocross times), there are just a few cars that can beat an S in GS -- a well set-up Celica GT on most courses, and some cars with factory equipped LSDs on courses that is predominantly sweepers. If a course is predominately transitions (slaloms, boxes), an S is hard to beat with anything. I recently took top PAX on a course that had no real sweepers.

[gorditoautoxr]

Exhaust is free too correct? Scott, so basically the wheels/tires are the only really necessary things for a tight budget? What kind of tire pressures are good for minimal understeer?

[scottgib]

Quote: Originally Posted by gorditoautoxr

Exhaust is free too correct? Scott, so basically the wheels/tires are the only really necessary things for a tight budget? What kind of tire pressures are good for minimal understeer?

Yes, cat-back is free. Told you I was asleep.

I'm not sure I have the pressures right yet and I have been running the S for 1½ years. So take my numbers as being worth what you paid for them. I run 43/38 in 205/16 V700s. This probably does not get the max rotation, but then again I don't spin very often. On a course without hairy transitions, going up in the rear might get a bit more rotation. I have found myself looking more like a drifter (slow) at the end of a slalom when the rear pressure is too high.

[bluemcs]

The filter has to be drop in only, right?

And the Mini front bar is out because the S is not offered in the US with a suspension combination using that bar?

The yellow Koni's make a big difference. Front's are adjustable through the tower. Rears, have to be removed.

[gorditoautoxr]

Quote: Originally Posted by FWD-MX5

The springs and rear sway are not legal in GS. You may want to consider a front bar off of a Cooper <$100 (check the marketplace). Since a rear bar is illegal reduce the grip of the front instead of increasing rear grip.
Wheels and tires is also a great start, but I would go with R compounds over Azeni, since you are buying new rims. Used VSpokes should be cheaper than Monzas or SSR Comp Rs and the hundreths of seconds you can save are not worth the $$$. The last $500 should be spent on Evolution driving school, if not that maybe yellow Konis. Hope this helps.
Chris

The reason I'm considering just going with the Azenis is that they can be used on the street and I want my new wheels to completely replace for old wheels

[scottgib]

Azenis are good tires, but unless you really don't have any competition in GS, you lose. My estimate of the difference on a 40 sec. course is ¾ to 1 sec. That much would generally move me from first to 4th or 5th in my region (assuming Carpenter doesn't show up -- If he does, he beats me a couple of seconds -- half sec. for the car and the rest is driver).

That said you can still have a lot of fun with Azenis and they are a lot better than the run-flats.

[FWD-MX5]

Front bars are free in stock, so the thinner Cooper bar is a good cheap addition.
To adjust the Konis on the rear of a car, all you have to do is disconnect the rear sway bar and take out the two bolts that hold the shock to the body, push down on the hub and get the koni adjuster in there and twist away. I can do it by myself in less than 5 minutes per side.
R compounds are worth 2 seconds on a 60 second course.
I run 52/52 on 215/40 16 Hoosiers.

[gorditoautoxr]

it's all about comprimise i guess. if i get the hoosiers or victoracers i'll do better on the track but they cost more and i can't use them on the street. with azenis and light wheels i can do mildly better on the track but i can also use them for street and with the extra money i can put that into an autox school like Evo which is where the big time gains come. Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!

[scottgib]

You are probably right on the school. I am in bad need of one.

[racer_tom]

Since exhaust is an option for stock class changes, consider modifying yours. The "one ball" mod (search for stock exhaust modification) is a cheap effective performance adder. I had mine done for ~$80 at a local muffler shop. In addition to eliminating restriction from the resonator, you loose about 16 pound of dead weight. A great price compared to ALL of the aftermarket systems. I obtained a complete stock S cat back system from a fellow owner as a backup in case I didn't like the mod I did to my system. However, I was quite happy with the sound of the modified stock system and didn't need the backup. Performance feels like it improved, but that may just be perception.

[olddad]

Only the drop in filter element can be changed in GS. On the dyno there was virtually no difference in HP output on my S between OEM paper, K&N cotton or foam. No element at all is also legal but reduces HP (turbulence?) The best element for HP, although not really worth the effort, is the crappiest and least restrictive foam shaved down to a minimum thickness to provide smooth flow and very poor engine protection. Again, intake in GS is a non issue.

Single electrode plugs properly indexed to the exhaust side also was waste of time.

Kinda nice thing about GS is beyond catback, shocks, harder brake pads and R-compound tires, there is no other expense that would give one car an advantage over another. It comes down to tuning suspension and grip balance, and then driving to best of ability.

[TSizemore3]

You might want to check with the organization you want to autocross with before buying the R-compound tires. Some clubs don't allow them, or don't allow them in the Novice category if they have one. I was all set to get the Kumho V700's until I found out that the group I autox with didn't allow R-compounds or anything with a treadwear rating under 200 in the Novice groups. Since I am still just starting out and wanted to remain in the Novice group for this season, I went with the Falken Azenis. With the lightweight 16"x6.5" 44mm offset Lucca Nicco wheels (14.3lbs. each) and the 215-45-16" Azenis, I save 32 pounds of unsprung weight over the factory 17" S-lites with Dunlop performance runflats.

We had the first event of the season on January 5th (ain't living in Florida grand!) and I ran the new wheel/tire set there. I was immediately four seconds faster than the stock wheel/tires on a 1.1 mile course. The car felt nimbler and much more planted in the turns. I also found that the tire wear appeared reduced. I hope to be able to use them for most of the season.

Just food for thought...
Tom

[SteveS]

Randy Webb said the milltek catback posted 8 ft. lbs torque increase. Catback is legal in stock. It is a shame the rules don't allow EITHER front OR rear bar replacement. Someone should press for rules change. I don't understand logic of limiting which end to permit the replacement at.

[conechaser]

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveS

Randy Webb said the milltek catback posted 8 ft. lbs torque increase. Catback is legal in stock. It is a shame the rules don't allow EITHER front OR rear bar replacement. Someone should press for rules change. I don't understand logic of limiting which end to permit the replacement at.

I think the rule goes way back to when most cars were RWD.

It really should be either:

Allow to change the bar away from the driving wheels

OR

not allow any changes to any bar.