[squid]

miniusa says sport suspension plus (SSP) includes
stiff anti-roll bars, for $500.
(sway bars, anti-roll bars, stabilizer bars are synonyms).

In SCCA stock you can use any front anti-roll bar, and
any shocks, but you must have a stock rear bar.

Also, you must run a set of other suspension parts as
shipped from the factory: no homebrew mixing and
matching (eg.,some parts from the sport suspension,
others from the sport plus) of springs and rear sway
bar is allowed.

What exactly is the SSP ? Anti roll bars and
only anti roll bars ? Are the mount the same
points, with the same bushigs ?

Does anybody have a fiche/CD w part numbers to
confirm ?

[Garfield]

SCCA Solo II Stock allows any change in the suspension FROM THE FACTORY. The SSP is perfectly legal, even as an afterthought, since it's a stand-alone option. So if you got a pre-spec Cooper without SSP and wanted to add it later, it would still be legal because it's offered as a separate option. This situation is run into all the time with wheels as well. If it's not part of a package, you can upgrade it alone.

According to some literature somewhere else I read, and the MINI mechanic I now race with, the SSP is bars AND springs, but not shocks. There is still some question of whether the rear bar is any bigger, I'll have to research that some more by checking the part numbers.

In the meantime, if you're running Solo II Stock, definitely get the SSP. The funny part is that you may end up going with the standard suspension front bar to eliminate some understeer. But so far, I've been able to balance the car based on tire pressures alone.

[districtofc]

to add to more useless information...spring rates are 160 lb/inch. i run aftermarket 170 front/ 160 rear. not bad for factory springs

[TBDAugs]

for my 2002 Mini Cooper, Premium package, with the stock 15" wheels, gas tank near empty.
NO SSP option


Used the computerized/laser measurement suspension rack across the street at my tuner's shop:

read out says:

Left Front

Caster: +3.92
Camber: -0.24
Toe: + 1/32

Right Front

Caster: +3.76
Camber: -0.68
Toe: -1/8

Left Rear

Camber: -0.80
Toe: -1/32

Right Rear

Camber: -0.76
Toe: 0.0

Total Toe

Front: -3/32
Rear: -1/16

Anyone have the recommended stock settings from the factory?

FYIAugs

[TBDAugs]

My understanding is you CAN'T "use any shock" in H stock or D stock.

You can only use the available standard or available option shock (if any), or an aftermarket, non-coilover, with no more than two settings.

Did I get something wrong? I'd really like to upgrade the shocks to an adjustable, but can't as yet, find one.

DamperAugs

[districtofc]

the way i read it, it sounds like you can use any damper so long as the mounting points are the same as stock. i was reading about some miata where they had a multiadjustable damper but they had to lock (weld) the camber ajustment to the stock setting in order for it to be legal.

[TBDAugs]

for ALL stock classes:

shock absorber adjustable spring perches must be welded at stock height

the bump stops can be removed to facilitate aftermarket shocks

aftermarket shocks allowable with no more than 2 external adjustments

any bushing can be used

external reservoir's allowable

coil overs not permitted


from my home club's website, NEOKLA SCCA

http://www.neokla-scca.org/SoloII/Al...ications.shtml


OkieAugs

[districtofc]

thanks! 2 external adjustments? does that mean 2 settings or does that mean an adjustment at the strut tower and one on the shock body? hahah so confusing.

[Racer]

TBD Augs

Std Settings are

Toe Front Left and Right 0 deg +/- 7.5'
Toe Rear left and tight 0 deg 12' +/- 4'
Camber front left and right -odeg 54' +/- 30'
Camber rear left and right -1 deg 32' +/- 30'
Castor left and right +4 deg 58' +/- 30'

Any others let me know

Racer

[squid]

thanks! 2 external adjustments? does that mean 2
settings or does that mean an adjustment at the strut
tower and one on the shock body? hahah so confusing.


Generally '2 adjustments' means one adjustment
for compression only and a separate adjustment
for rebound only.

[FlaggerStan]

I’m ordering a Cooper and will be running Solo II with it and would like to know how much advantage there is in ordering the SSP as compared to just the Sports Pak. Garfield, is there any rear wheel lift in tight turns (ala Neon) or do the tires stay planted with the SSP and how much under steer are we talking about?

[districtofc]

i watched the mini cooper run yesterday...not sure if it had ssp+ on it, but it did not lift the rear wheel. i also watch the S run, albeit in rain, it didnt lift its wheel either. another cooper with spax coilovers reportedly did lift its wheel under hard cornering.

[Garfield]

Hmmm. 205/50R15 Kumho Victoracers on standard suspension, I did this in March:

[districtofc]

ahh but you drive like a mad man. what tires did they have on the car yesterday? they were kumhos right?

[Garfield]

Did you stay to see me drive the MINI yesterday?

Yes, the Cooper was running 205/45R16 Kumho Ecsta V700's. Pretty much the same compound tire, just newer design.

The MINI is a VERY well balanced car considering how front heavy the numbers are. It does understeer but it can be easily counteracted by the tire pressures and responds excellent to lift throttle oversteer. If the pressures are too high in the rear, it comes around too easily, but can always be corrected by giving it throttle. What you want to do is dial in just enough oversteer for you to purposely cause it, that way you can drift it around sweepers very easily. The car is great, no doubt about it.

Yesterday, I drove a Type R for the first time. It cornered flat but the steering response was week and certainly needed much more input to get what you needed. I ran it for 3 runs, the first two I shifted into second and tried to run it in the lower revs through the tight course. The third run, I finally decided to see how far 1st gear would take me through the course and shaved off 1.2 seconds to a 57.8. That car HAS to be run at 7-8k all the time, THEN it's a rocket. (I jumped in the Cooper for one run and turned a 59.9, as a reference. I may have been able to pull into the high 58's with a couple of runs, but no better than that)
The Cooper and Cooper S have a lot more pull down low than any of these Hondas, etc. so it can be driven as such.

I still have not had a Cooper S on a dry course to compare back to back. To me, from how I've driven it so far, the two suspensions are not that much different. I noticed the S's being a tad stiffer, but nothing to say "oh my god" about.

By the way, on the autocross, the Coopers have a definite advantage in that I've never been able to throw a car into first gear so easily. It's very friendly to that.

[districtofc]

no i didnt see you drive the mini and it sorta disappoints me that i missed it. oh well, i have a sunburn like no other and wouldve melted if i stayed any longer. i was hoping to see you drive the cooper S on dry pavement this time but no luck...the demo S is being delivered. i had hyped up the S so much to my friend who drives a Mk II N/A Mr2 but you not driving the S and and that incredible driver driving that black Mk II n/a mr2 did not help matters. he still believes the mr2 is superior and i still think the cooper s is. i know i shouldnt bench race but sometimes i just have to! hahah next time hopefully you'll have your S. as far as the type R having to be driven in 1st gear...its all about the vtec engaging i guess. when i drove it i didnt notice the slow steering you mentioned though. i sent you a pm about helping out at the next event so i'll send you an email closer to the next event. do you by any chance know if the cooper had the ssp or ssp+ on yesterday? and when you go from understeer to oversteer are you left foot braking or just gently tapping the brakes?

[Garfield]

None of the pre-spec Coopers have a Sport Suspension Plus (which is why Marshall HAD to order his), so I can safely assume this one didn't either.

The Cooper S "MIGHT" be faster than a NA 2nd Gen MR2, but that will still be a toss up on certain courses. And I can guarantee the MR2 will be faster with Lee Piccione or Doug Newhard driving (just look for their National results).

To go from understeer to oversteer it's neither that you suggested, it's simple throttle application and lift, no brakes necessary. That's what makes this car great for a smooth driver.

[districtofc]

then why is the mkII n/a mr2 in e stock and the cooper s in d stock? doesn't sound fair. i just looked at the results and im just more confused. in theory...e stock cars should be slower than d stock right? i guess the mid engine, rwd layout is just superior in the hands of a capable driver (as in Lee)? im not really worried about it too much but given equal drivers (experienced), what would turn a better time? so if yourself, or lee, were to drive the mr2 and cooper s back to back which would come out on top?

[~DJ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Garfield

It does understeer but it can be easily counteracted by the tire pressures and responds excellent to lift throttle oversteer. If the pressures are too high in the rear, it comes around too easily, but can always be corrected by giving it throttle. What you want to do is dial in just enough oversteer for you to purposely cause it, that way you can drift it around sweepers very easily. The car is great, no doubt about it.

Can you tell us what front and rear pressures are working well for you?

[districtofc]

i doubt any competitive autoxer is gonna give it away but i think its somewhere around the low 40s up front and upper 30s out back. good luck.