track day brake pads

[gbuff1]

What is everybody using? I've been using Hawk HT10s on my BMW but I don't think they're out for the Mini yet; possibly the HP+ pads will suffice...if anyone's using Ferodos, are they 2500s or 3500s? Or anything else?

Thanks.

[dukesantos]

There are quite a few choices, it would be helpful to know a little more about your usage. Will it be primarily street with some autocross and an occasional track DE? Lots of autocross and track? All out racing with no street use? How much brake dust can you tolerate?

For example, the stock pads actually work pretty well for autocross and an occasional track day, but generate a fair amount of dust. The EBC Green pad is a little better and less dust. The EBC Red is still street drivable but more track oriented with dust again. Mintex, Ferodo and others are also available for the MINI. A couple of other points, the rear pads are a little tricky to change, but outlast the fronts so you may not need to change them right off. A pad paste like Disk Brake Quiet really helps reduce squeaks.

You can boil the stock brake fluid pretty easily on the track, I highly recommend changing to a higher temp. fluid like ATE or Motul.

Have fun.

[gbuff1]

Duke--it's gonna be open-track days and DEs primarily, about 30-35 days/year. I'd prefer to use something I could put on at home and drive to and from the track on, like the HP+....dust I don't care about unless it's corrosive (which is why I won't use Hawk Blues). I've used Motul and Hawk HT10s in my BMW and been happy but they don't make the HT10s for the Mini yet...I've had PF97s suggested to me and I've been told I could probably get away with just the fronts. I'll find out in a couple weeks at Mosport......

Gary

[bluesmini]

i use the carbotec xl 9 in the front and xl 8 in the back. i'm not sure how they compare but they work great for me. very dusty and lots of noise. the dust is not corrosive to my stock wheels. i have left them on for a few weeks between track days and don't recommend it. they are all but useless when cold and extra grabby when hot.

i began my brake remedies with ATE fluid and stock pads.... i was still boiling fluid i thought. i went through a few sets of stock pads and rotors. i found out that i really needed to start a track event with the fluid just on or a tiny bit above the MIN mark on the brake fluid tank. that kept it from over flowing.

still disappointed in my braking i went for the SS lines and carbotec pads. they are great for anything up to a 25 min. session. after that i get them to hot and have to back off as they fade. i'm a late hard braker. that’s where i catch most of the porsches and M3's. they don't like me a bit.

i can't afford a set of big brakes so this will have to do for now

[robfenn]

You can't go wrong with the Ferodo 2500's, effective and good value. I don't know a motorsport outlet that doesn't recommend them. In my experience EBC pads have been pretty awful..

As above, uprated brake fluid is a must, and you may as well get braided lines whilst your'e at it. I'm not sure how good the brake discs are on the Mini but if there are some 'group N' alternatives i would suggest getting them too.

-Rob

[dguard]

I ran a track event last Sunday at Waterford Hills, MI and was not too happy with the braking perfromance. I'll attribute some of the problem to the EBC Green stuff pads but also know there's funny things happening with the ABS.

The ABS system goes into ice-mode under trail braking. Also elevation changes seem to trigger this as well. There were two points (the most critical braking zones) on the track where I could not use near the brake capacity the MINI had due to the ABS. The trail braking at the end of the main straight and the braking into turn one (slight dip braking
straight, then into a off camber right turn). Any body roll or elevation change seemed to amke the ABS go nuts.

The pads seemed to give vcaried performance in the other turns, basically not predictable.

I run wiuth the DSC off. Does anyone know if the ABS is on e a fuse by itself. I would consider running the car on the track without it - if that's possible ?

I'll also look at other pad suggestions if that is part of the problem. Has anyone else had ABS problems at track days ?

Thanks,

Dave Guard
'04 Cooper S

[Tonyt3]

If yor doing 30-35 track days a year, I think you need some of these......

No braking problems what so ever.....

[MINIAK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tony*t3

If yor doing 30-35 track days a year, I think you need some of these......

No braking problems what so ever.....

Yeah, a set of big brakes will help you out.

B3Brakes has a great kit for a reasonable price. Not sure if he is a vendor here, but I think he is on NAM.

Pretty much eliminates brake fade, and the pad swap is a piece of cake!

I am running the Ferrodos.

[robfenn]

That will not this major ABS problem though..

Hopefully my Cooper won't be the same, i do a few trackdays a month so it will need be able to cope with it!

-Rob

[MINIAK]

Quote: Originally Posted by robfenn

That will not this major ABS problem though..

Hopefully my Cooper won't be the same, i do a few trackdays a month so it will need be able to cope with it!

-Rob

I think we were answering the original poster's question.

Yeah, the ABS problem sounds very strange. I would take it in and have the dealer *GASP* look at it. Probably would not mention the "track" part of it though. Also, I do not know if it is on its own fuse. Sorry.

I do know other people track their Cooper's without this ABS problem though.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tony*t3

If yor doing 30-35 track days a year, I think you need some of these......

No braking problems what so ever.....

Hi,

Sorry, but I dont agree

In the last year I have done 25+ track / rally days, many are competitive and timed to 1/1000th of a second. I am running stock discs and calipers, but with upgraded pads (Galfers) with braided lines and fluids.

The Galfer pads are by far the best I have used, in my opinion. The ferrodo pads (3,000 series) are a similar compound. I have used the Ferrodos on my E46M3, and was happy. However, an experienced friend, who is a class winner in major tarmac rallies, has been sponsored by EBC, ferrodo and galfer, and has used all 3 products extensively . He rates Galfers as the best by far, more bite and feel. However, they are also more expensive .

I have never had a brake fade problem with this setu[ With a proper set-up and technique the stock discs and calipers are fine.

Most importantly, out of all of those track days, I have never been beaten on the track in times by someone with the a big brake kit However, someone got pretty close last time Once someone with a big brake kit starts beating my times, I'll start paying attention

My track sessions are limited to to 20-30 minutes max.

A big brake kit is simply not necessary, in my opinion, unless you are doing endurance racing 30 minutes + per session. I can think of far better things to spend the money on (eg tyres) if you want to be quicker

Cheers

Robbo

[MINIAK]

Quote: Originally Posted by robbo mcs

Hi,

Sorry, but I dont agree

In the last year I have done 25+ track / rally days, many are competitive and timed to 1/1000th of a second. I am running stock discs and calipers, but with upgraded pads (Galfers) with braided lines and fluids.

The Galfer pads are by far the best I have used, in my opinion. The ferrodo pads (3,000 series) are a similar compound. I have used the Ferrodos on my E46M3, and was happy. However, an experienced friend, who is a class winner in major tarmac rallies, has been sponsored by EBC, ferrodo and galfer, and has used all 3 products extensively . He rates Galfers as the best by far, more bite and feel. However, they are also more expensive .

I have never had a brake fade problem with this setu[ With a proper set-up and technique the stock discs and calipers are fine.

Most importantly, out of all of those track days, I have never been beaten on the track in times by someone with the a big brake kit However, someone got pretty close last time Once someone with a big brake kit starts beating my times, I'll start paying attention

My track sessions are limited to to 20-30 minutes max.

A big brake kit is simply not necessary, in my opinion, unless you are doing endurance racing 30 minutes + per session. I can think of far better things to spend the money on (eg tyres) if you want to be quicker

Cheers

Robbo

I know you were not talking about my post, but I will put in my $1.59.

I agree with you...

"Need" a big brake kit, probably not. The stock brake kit is very adequate depending on the pads, track and driver.

As far as not being beat... After looking at your list of mods, brakes are not going to make THAT big of a difference. To be honest, in my opinion, the driver makes THE BIGGEST difference in performance over any kind of mod.

I like the brake kit as I can change front pads (street - track and vice versa) in about 5 minutes, not including tire removal. Also, I have not had to bleed the brakes in 6 months and about 2,000 miles of track use. I also do not wear out pads as often.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIAK

I know you were not talking about my post, but I will put in my $1.59.

I agree with you...

"Need" a big brake kit, probably not. The stock brake kit is very adequate depending on the pads, track and driver.

As far as not being beat... After looking at your list of mods, brakes are not going to make THAT big of a difference. To be honest, in my opinion, the driver makes THE BIGGEST difference in performance over any kind of mod.

I like the brake kit as I can change front pads (street - track and vice versa) in about 5 minutes, not including tire removal. Also, I have not had to bleed the brakes in 6 months and about 2,000 miles of track use. I also do not wear out pads as often.

Hi,

All fair comments There is nothing wrong with big brake kits However, as you point out, there is a difference between needing and wanting. The investment in a big brake kit is relatively large, especially considering that you generally need to buy new rims to fit over the kit.

Cheers

Robbo

[bluesmini]

i've been using carbotec pads. i started with the XL9's in the front and XL8's in the back. i wore the XL 9's out in only 5 days of event driving. i've moved up to the XL 10's in the front. they are very grabby when hot. i still have to bleed my brakes at the track at least once a day or after two 25-30min. runs. i'm gonna get a set of wilwood big brakes but have to wait til after the holidays. all tapped out of cash for now.

[MINIAK]

Quote: Originally Posted by robbo mcs

Hi,

All fair comments There is nothing wrong with big brake kits However, as you point out, there is a difference between needing and wanting. The investment in a big brake kit is relatively large, especially considering that you generally need to buy new rims to fit over the kit.

Cheers

Robbo

Excellent point.

The stock wheels are so heavy that you might want to consider changing them out anyway.

On the BBK. I guess it depends on how much your time is worth. I have saved probably 15-20 hours this year alone in brake jobs. I used to have to change and bleed the brakes after every event (or every other). To me, that is worth a B3Brakes kit that costs ~$800. He also has a kit that will fit behind the S-lites, if you are so inclined.

In conclusion, if you have the money and track your car fairly often, I would recommend getting a BBK, if either of those is not true, it may not be worth the expense of a BBK.

Just my $1.89