[n00b]

They looked quite nice but a bit pricey...who got them in their MINI? I'll need one quite soon

[induct]

Congrats!!!

Have you ISOFix?

[racinbmw]

I just bought the Recaro child Sport seat, it arrives today. I will let you know how it turns out.
Thanks

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by n00b

They looked quite nice but a bit pricey...who got them in their MINI? I'll need one quite soon

all I am saying is there is more to car seat design than looks, I wouldn't buy one of them

[dietcokeplease]

We have a Recaro Start child seat. It it supposedly for kids aged 9 months to 12 years. But I would highly advise against using it for 9 month old kids as most 9 month old kids may be the correct weight but are way too small for the adult seat belt. I think Recaro have realised this and made an impact cushion for small kids. Even with the extra padding kit for babies we found that Amelia was on the small side. Amelia is now 3 1/2 and we only now use the seat in the second car or if my mum needs to collect her from nursery.

The Recaro Young Style and Young Sport seem to be much better seats and more on the classic Britax/Maxi-Cosi style. I inspected one in Halfords and it seemed a very solid seat and had good impact ratings.

[Victrolio]

We've just bought the Recaro Young Sport, which has a five point harness for group 1, then converts into a booster seat for older children. The lady that fitted and sold the seat to us was a trained Britax fitter, and still said the Recaro was the best fit for the Cooper S. We also use a Quinny Buzz (which can fit in the boot) and previously used the Maxi Cosi Cabrio. Hope this is useful.

[n00b]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey

all I am saying is there is more to car seat design than looks, I wouldn't buy one of them

Well I wanted the Profi but doesn't look like anyone would want to ship it across the pond. So are you suggesting it's not worth the trouble in sourcing one Rakey? Thanks bud.

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by n00b

Well I wanted the Profi but doesn't look like anyone would want to ship it across the pond. So are you suggesting it's not worth the trouble in sourcing one Rakey? Thanks bud.

not too sure on the Aussie regulations, I know that basically its a pretty closed market place so that could be why you can't get one

As for the recarro seats all I would add is that it passes the regulations, and it looks good, but there are more seats on the market that surpass it in the testing standards and also that are more comfortable for a child to sit in. An uncomfortable child will only try and climb out of a seat, so comfort is important

[AndrewH]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey

not too sure on the Aussie regulations, I know that basically its a pretty closed market place so that could be why you can't get one

It's not that our market is closed, in fact, it's quite the opposite - Australia is one of the least protected economies in the OECD, it's that until quite recently (and it may still be the case) Australian child seat standards were significantly more stringent than those in Europe. I know that around 4 or 5 years ago, a lot of work was being done to try to persuade the EU standards body to adopt similar standards that have been in force in Australia for decades, particularly in relation to top tethers

[n00b]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey

not too sure on the Aussie regulations, I know that basically its a pretty closed market place so that could be why you can't get one

As for the recarro seats all I would add is that it passes the regulations, and it looks good, but there are more seats on the market that surpass it in the testing standards and also that are more comfortable for a child to sit in. An uncomfortable child will only try and climb out of a seat, so comfort is important

Thanks for your comments Rakey, can you recommend any websites I should do some reading on?

(the Aussie rules is a weird one - I've spoke to shops, if they don't actually meet the Australian rules then they're deemed to be illegal even though they might comply to the European or UK standards...) Probably the same reason why MINI Aust didn't bother to bring in the lovely looking seat - the market's too small to justify the expense in testing them to conform with the Aussie standards.

[AndrewH]

Quote: Originally Posted by n00b

(the Aussie rules is a weird one - I've spoke to shops, if they don't actually meet the Australian rules then they're deemed to be illegal even though they might comply to the European or UK standards...)

They are deemed to be illegal for a reason, ie they aren't as safe as the ones that meet our standards. As a parent, I don't understand why you would be prepared to put you child in an inferior product Trust me, there is well documented evidence that our child restraint standards result in fewer child fatalities and injuries in car accidents

Quote: Originally Posted by n00b

Probably the same reason why MINI Aust didn't bother to bring in the lovely looking seat - the market's too small to justify the expense in testing them to conform with the Aussie standards.

I'd say it had more to do with them not wanting to redesign the seat with extra safety features to comply with our standards rather than simply not wanting to test what they already had produced

Sorry, I'll get back in my box now

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by AndrewH

They are deemed to be illegal for a reason, ie they aren't as safe as the ones that meet our standards. As a parent, I don't understand why you would be prepared to put you child in an inferior product Trust me, there is well documented evidence that our child restraint standards result in fewer child fatalities and injuries in car accidents

I'd say it had more to do with them not wanting to redesign the seat with extra safety features to comply with our standards rather than simply not wanting to test what they already had produced

Sorry, I'll get back in my box now

You'll find that the Aussie market is closed off to most manufacturers of car seats due to the top tethers as you mentioned.

The reason this closes off the Aussie market is that the manufacturers of the seats in the Aussie market have patented and protected the use of the tethers, so that only they can sell the seats with this supposedly great safety feature. Which in my opinion prevents competition, thus keeps prices high on seats, resulting in more sales of second hand seats and some parents not even using seats

Oh and those companies that hold the patents also hold seats on the standards commitee, so they ensure that the top tether remains in the standard requirment for Australia, thus giving them a monoply on making and selling seats in this market. Its not just about the fact that tether system is the safer than our standards, its a case that is keeps those in market protected against the major manufacturers in the rest of the world

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by n00b

Thanks for your comments Rakey, can you recommend any websites I should do some reading on?

(the Aussie rules is a weird one - I've spoke to shops, if they don't actually meet the Australian rules then they're deemed to be illegal even though they might comply to the European or UK standards...) Probably the same reason why MINI Aust didn't bother to bring in the lovely looking seat - the market's too small to justify the expense in testing them to conform with the Aussie standards.

Sorry I don't have any sites I can recommend for the Australian market, as I only have a small amount of knowledge on the market from research that I did when I looked to see if I get our products to meet the standards.

I guess that MINI didn't bring their seat in for the same reason that most Nursery companies can't (see above post)

[AndrewH]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey

Oh and those companies that hold the patents also hold seats on the standards commitee, so they ensure that the top tether remains in the standard requirment for Australia, thus giving them a monoply on making and selling seats in this market. Its not just about the fact that tether system is the safer than our standards, its a case that is keeps those in market protected against the major manufacturers in the rest of the world

Without wanting to take this thread more off topic than I think I'm largely responsible for doing (my apologies Evan ), it's interesting that you make the above comment cause it was my recollection that consumer advocacy organisations (including one I used to work for) and Australian and New Zealand government agencies make up the majority of the Standards Australia committee responsible for child seat safety standards and they certainly have no special interest in protecting local manufacturers. To be precise, the committee is made up of:

• Australian Automobile Association (who I used to work for - they are a motorists advocacy body much like The AA or RAC)
• Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association
• Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry
• Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (Australian Government body responsible for preventing anti-competitive behavior)
• Australian Industry Group
• Australian Retailers Association
• Business New Zealand
• Certification Interests (Australia)
• Commonwealth Department of Transport and Regional Services (who I work for now)
• Consumers Federation of Australia
• Department of Fair Trading, NSW Consumer Protection Agency
• Engineers Australia
• Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries
• Federation of Automotive Products Manufacturers
• Kidsafe (Australia) (consumer organisation)
• Land Transport Safety Authority, New Zealand
• National Association of Testing Authorities, Australia
• National Health and Medical Research Council, Australia
• N.S.W. Health Department
• Roads & Traffic Authority of N.S.W.
• Royal Australasian College of Surgeons
• Royal New Zealand Plunket Society
• Safekids (New Zealand)
• The Treasury, (Australia)
• Wellington Manufacturers Association, New Zealand

Also, Standards Australia are not in the habit of implementing standards that confer advantage to one manufacturer over another or which result in monopoly conditions especially in relation to patents. There is always more than one way to skin a cat

[Mr G]

when you travel with babies, you find out just how good car seat designs are. when Emily was 6 months old we hired a toyota avalon (land based sea mammal for those o/s who don't know what they are) the only car seat mounting was in the middle. upon driving out of the airport, the seat rolled onto its side. the only fix for this was to tie 2 additional straps to the front seat headrests.

when we were in germany recently we hired a 4wd with a car seat. I was under the impression that europe had isofix seats, and was looking forward to trying one out. then the guy comes out with a seat simliar to what we use here, but with no top tether. Because the guy was young and had no experience with children himself I insisted that he got more information of how to fit it. after two hours, and 3 different people we finally believed them that there is no top tether, and that you can drive like that in Germany.

In all of this we insisted they change the seat for another one because it was actually broken anyway. the one they replaced it with was missing the adjustment strap, so we ended up building one from the two

i can't believe that they allow car seats with no top tether. in a front on collision they would work ok, but where any side impact is involved it would end in tears. whatever Aussie authority made the ruling to dissallow these things gets my support.