Tour du Nord II: St. John's Newfoundland Feb 17-22

[DUCTTAPE]

A breather in our planning. Two guys from Canada sent me pictures recently, which I posted on MINI2. Here is the post:

A Canadian fellow named Dave Wislon emailed me about 2 weeks ago saying he was going to Hudson Bay in his Miata. He sent me these pictures from the trip:







This is a pic he sent me before he left. I think he said it was taken in Alaska/Canada area:



Tom Tollefson, also from Canada, did the trip last Easter. He sent me these pcitures:











Are we ready to go again?

[Oldpaint]

Just saw this link to a road rally event in Newfoundland.

http://www.mini.ca/en/More_MINI/Targ...d/default.aspx

[Oldpaint]

Here's an even better link with video of some of the high speed roads we'll be driving .
http://www.mini.ca/en/More_MINI/Targ...o/default.aspx

[MinorRoadsKill]

Cabot Trail thoughts

During my Cape Breton vacation in 2003, I remember finding the Cabot Trail fun but perhaps not quite as fun as its reputation (in terms of driving the road, not the great national park through which it passes twice).

Having just returned from driving a chunk of the Blue Ridge Parkway, everything else seems to pale in comparison. The Blue Ridge Parkway is truly incredible, with never a dull moment, which is seldom the case with the best of scenic drives. My only quibble with the BRP is that it's contrived - that is, it was built for its scenic purpose..

I had begun to fear that anyone else whose been on the BRP will not find the Cabot Trail worthwhile. Then last night, I got to see pictures of a friend's recent honeymoon to Fundy, the Cabot Trail and through Newfoundland. They reminded me just how good it was, and of the pure enjoyment of an authentic road that just happens to be scenic.


Fundy thoughts

Here are some links for a place those friends of mine visted on the Bay of Fundy:
http://www.thehopewellrocks.ca/english/park.htm
http://www.thehopewellrocks.com/
http://www.lau.chs-shc.dfo-mpo.gc.ca...n=5&stnnum=170

The last link shows the tides tables. The best thing is to experience low tides so you can walk around the sea floor, then gradually be pushed back and see it disappear until high tide. Unfortunately, the tables aren't playing into our schedule terribly well. For one, the tides are at their monthly lowest during our trip (only 25 feet rather than up to 46 feet). To see them on the way back from Newfoundland (to split the return drive), we would arrive at high tide on Tuesday just after sundown. Low tide would be around midnight, with high tide occurring in the morning just before dawn, with low tide not coming until 1pm on the Wednesday.

Seeing the tides on the way to Newfoundland is probably superior. Doing so means leaving a day early (or , rather, early Thursday rather than after work on Thursday), and driving to Fundy during Thursday. Low tide is 9am Friday, reaching high tide at 2pm. The NL ferry is about a 7 hour drive from the top of Fundy, so leaving at high tide to make the 11pm ferry cutoff is quite doable. However, since this doesn't allow for seeing the Cabot Trail during daylight hours, it means that seeing both Fundy AND the Cabot Trail means taking TWO extra days off work - the Thursday before for Fundy, and Wednesday afterward for Cabot Trail / return drive splitting.

Of course by adding two extra days, all pretentions of this being a weekend outing are gone - it's now a full 7 days, sometimes called a week. Still, at least you're seeing it quickly - most people take 3 weeks to do this trip. And fortunately, this is entirely optional for those who want to skip it.

Ross

[MinorRoadsKill]

Planning a tightly-scheduled winter trip to Newfoundland is a good deal harder than James Bay in some respects. The driving distance is virtually the same, but there's an unpredictable 7 hour ferry ride in the middle to contend with. Also, since the moose outnumber people, driving at night in rural Newfoundland is somewhat dangerous, and we should avoid it whenever possible, just as the locals do. In February, there's about 8 hours of usable daylight before the moose become an issue. In the summer, with good weather, it takes 8 hours to drive across the island with no stops. In winter, it could take 8 hours, or it could take 12.

There's always a chance it could take days instead of hours to cross the island. Cape Breton and especially Newfoundland are culturally about as far away from the hurly-burly parts of North America as you can get - they're easily as laid back as much of the third world, sometimes more so. When a winter storm hits, nobody goes anywhere, and the Trans-Canada can be shut for a couple days. While shovelling out, Newfies use the pause to sing, dance, eat, and quite literally boost the birth rate. So, even more so than with last year's JBR trip, a winter storm could make us several days late returning to our homes and workplaces. Anyone who can't afford this domestically or career-wise should probably bail. On the other hand, maybe this all serves to make the trip just that much more exciting.

Despite the above, the most difficult aspect of planning this trip is that any schedule is not likely to survive contact with the Newfoundland ferry. Frankly, the operator of the giant government-run ferry to Newfoundland treats its published schedule as merely a suggestion. This is particularly true in the off-season, which unfortunately is 10 months of the year, and most definitely includes February. To provide some perspective of what constitutes 'better' service, in summer 2005 the ferry ran up to 4 hours late continuously for weeks at a time. Considering that it sails every 8 hours in the summer, running up to 4 hours late means that the schedule is more or less random.

My own experience with the ferry in early June 2004 (off-season) was that despite having a reservation, they sent the ferry away full 7 hours AHEAD of schedule. Even better: I had successfully confirmed the reservations when I left Halifax, 5 hours before the ferry was scheduled to leave, but apparently 2 hours after it had already sailed. The staff's reaction was "What do you expect? It's the off-season". My response was that I would fly the oft-dreaded Air Canada to Newfoundland the next time rather than take the ferry. So much for that prediction.

Anyway, what I'm getting around to saying is that with often-random sailings, trying to take the Nfld ferry during daylight could backfire. The noon sailing might not leave much before sundown, and we'd have wasted a day waiting. On the other hand, trying to take the ferry overnight means that even if the ferry leaves a few hours late, the extra time spent twiddling our thumbs waiting to board is in the dark. Plus, the overnight ferry gives us the best chance to do our Newfoundland driving during daylight.

The good news is that a Friday overnight trip may offer Ducttape a little bit of the daylight ferry trip he's looking for. The 7-hour ferry trip is scheduled to depart North Sydney, NS at 11:30pm Atlantic time, arriving in Port aux Basques, NL at 6:30am Atlantic, or 7am Newfoundland time. From my calculations, the sun on February 18 rises in Port aux Basques at 7:06am local time. So, if the ferry is late at all, Ducttape can watch the sunrise on the ferry - provided it isn't foggy, which is usually the case. And if that doesn't work out, the return trip offers virtually the same situation - and the chances of neither ferry being late are pretty slim.

Any thoughts? Feedback?

Ross

[squid]

I'm flexible with dates.

Considering all the uncertainty in scheduling, weather, I like the idea of planning a down
time day in the middle or late in the trip, to catch up or look around, something other than
10 hours driving.

[DaveW124]

Hi there,

I am not a Mini owner but I am the guy with the BRG Miata whose pics are posted above at the Arctic Circle and at James Bay. I have corresponded with Duct Tape several times and he suggested I join the forum and follow the threads. I had originally thought about seeing if I could get in on the trip as a copilot with someone but am now thinkng about possibly joining in if allowed.

Here is the story. I do not drive my '91 special addition Miata in the winter as I hope to keep it forever, but I am very likely ordering a 2006 Miata tomnorrow in which I will defintiely be doing some winter trips. I will be ordering one with limited slip and DSC so that it should handle fairly well in the snow once I put on dedicates snow tires. So my question to the group is, if I get the new car in time (10 - 12 week waiting period) would I be able to join in on the tip to NewfieLand? I have already been there in the autumn with my miata but would love to visit it in the winter as well.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. If you would rather not have a non-Mini join in I understand and would not be offended.

DaveW
London, Ontario

[NHRef]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveW124

So my question to the group is, if I get the new car in time (10 - 12 week waiting period) would I be able to join in on the tip to NewfieLand? I have already been there in the autumn with my miata but would love to visit it in the winter as well.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. If you would rather not have a non-Mini join in I understand and would not be offended.

DaveW
London, Ontario

IMO, you're welcome to join us, Dave.

Just remember your tow hook so one of the MINIs can pull that Miata out of the snow

A couple of us (myself included) had guest navigators on the Hudson Bay trip. While it's too early to know who could take a passenger, you'd be welcome even if your new car's not ready by then.

Pete

[MinorRoadsKill]

I guess that makes for 2 Canucks without MINIs on the trip.

[squid]

Where are we all coming from ?

http://www.frappr.com/tourdenordhudsonbayorbustiii

[NHRef]

I'm thinkin' this trip has snowballed . . .

The ride from Matagami to Radisson was long, albeit longer than any of us planned. Driving home from Radisson last year, we were on the road way too late, especially in a snowstorm.

I'm frankly thinking we should return to the "long holiday weekend excursion" plan of last year:

Friday and Saturday - drive to destination
Sunday - sightseeing
Monday and Tuesday - return home

My sense is that the current trip is virtually entirely day-long driving, with the exception of the one day with 3 hours in the MINI. With a bit of snow, a side trip, a flat tire , any one of the days could be longer still.

As a practical matter, that last day is 16.5 hours from the coast of Nova Scotia to Suffern ~ or is it Suffering? As Ross notes, to break it up makes this a six day trip with an extra night's lodging/meals thrown in.

Bear in mind, too, that if you want to try sleeping for some part of the 7 hour midwinter ferry trip (probably not as smooth as glass), the cost for the car, people and accomodations is C$260 or US$220 for the MINI and two passengers.

Ross, is a winter tour around Nova Scotia a viable 5 day trip? Maybe with PEI thrown in?

[LePew]

Also been wondering here if there is a better destination than St. John's. One thing that still sticks with me from last year's trip was the sheer natural beauty along the James Bay Road. If we don't might splurging for the ferry, there is Gros Morne National Park in Newfoundland, which might afford us a better look at the wilderness. It would be a lot closer than St. John's (by about 8 hours each way). We could arrive there by noon Saturday.

http://www.shunpiking.com/winter/winter-NL.htm

But, remember, I'm in for following this group anywhere.

[DUCTTAPE]

I'm game. I just threw out some preliminary ideas and then used Ross's help to narrow down the lot.

Hell, we could all agree to go and then Thursday morning decide let's see West Virginian mountains for all I care.

Closer is better. Wilderness is better better.

Anybody care to throw in some effort and come up with an alternative? Like David, I'm game too.

d

BTW, if I don't find a navigator, my goats have volunteered to come along:

[MinorRoadsKill]

Quote: Originally Posted by NHRef

I'm frankly thinking we should return to the "long holiday weekend excursion" plan of last year:

Friday and Saturday - drive to destination
Sunday - sightseeing
Monday and Tuesday - return home

The Newfoundland trip was designed around the plan you mention (with some optional driving Thursday night), and I think that is partially why it was chosen over the longer trip (Trans-Lab). It's virtually a mirror of the Radisson trip in terms of driving time, being about 1 hour longer each way. It's also easier driving, with more freeway and the rest being mostly 3-lane and super-2 Trans-Canada. In short, this trip is easier than last year, except instead of the variability of ice roads, there's somewhat reduced variability in when the ferry departs.

Quote: Originally Posted by NHRef

My sense is that the current trip is virtually entirely day-long driving, with the exception of the one day with 3 hours in the MINI. With a bit of snow, a side trip, a flat tire , any one of the days could be longer still.

You're absolutely right that a snowstorm or mechanical trouble will make this a longer trip, althought that's true of any winter trip, and the same went for last year too. Anywhere we go in rural and/or remote Canada has the possibility of getting us stranded for a couple days. For any trip at this time of the year, no matter the length, people have to be prepared for the possibility that we won't make it back on any kind of schedule - life will slow down, and winter will do what it does.

With regard to all-day driving, the Newfoundland trip is about the same as Radisson was, so that's a good guage as to whether you liked the amount of driving. I think a key difference this time though is that since it's not a remote trip, there are more opportunities for side-trips, many of which may be tempting but which some or all of us won't be able to do. Newfoundland and Labrador is a small province but it's still the size of the state of California, so anything less than a 3-week trip will be a whirlwind.

There is a full day provided for a break (or it can be optionally divided between 2 days, as I did in the example itinerary for variety). Like Radisson, we either get a full break at the destination, or have time for side-trips on the way there or back. As a bonus, on this trip, people who want to spend an extra day can have their cake and eat it too - a break day at the destination AND side trips to Cabot Trail and/or Fundy.

My current thinking is that because we should be disembarking the ferry around dawn, DuctTape should get his daytime ferry fix from that, and we can drop the 'ferry to outports' idea from consideration. This is logistically easier and it would likely mean spending the full Sunday in St. John's just like we did in Radisson.

Quote: Originally Posted by NHRef

As a practical matter, that last day is 16.5 hours from the coast of Nova Scotia to Suffern ~ or is it Suffering? As Ross notes, to break it up makes this a six day trip with an extra night's lodging/meals thrown in.

This is true - 16.5 hours is a very long day, and the weakest part of the Newfoundland trip. It's the same length of drive as you had from Amos/Val D'Or to NY/NH last year. However, I would note that this year it's easier driving (all but 3 hours freeway), it won't be dark until you hit the Interstates, and the drive starts earlier in the day than last year (7am, when disembarking the ferry). The length is based on Suffern, but this time NH is on the way, so for you my estimate is 13.5 hours, or 3 hours shorter than coming from Amos/Val d'Or last year, meaning you're home before midnight. Still a long day no matter which way you slice it, but not necessarily a monster. I do NS to Ottawa (about the same distance) every year and go to work the next day, albeit in summer.

Quote: Originally Posted by NHRef

Bear in mind, too, that if you want to try sleeping for some part of the 7 hour midwinter ferry trip (probably not as smooth as glass), the cost for the car, people and accomodations is C$260 or US$220 for the MINI and two passengers.

Personally, I have found sleeping on big ships to be easier than on land, but everyone's different. These are the largest ferries in the Americas - no shallow-bottomed boats here - so the ride is as smooth as they get for a ferry - think enormous cruise ship. Now in a winter gale, who knows.

As for cost, it's C$360 for a car and two passengers (quad occupancy rooms) round trip, which is about US$150pp return. However it replaces the cost of two hotel nights, which would typically be about US$85pp (double occupancy, total over two nights). So the net cost is about US$65pp.

I have been busy lately, but in any case, I thought I would post a budget on the trip website (price of gas is tricky though - it's been wild the last few months!).

Quote: Originally Posted by NHRef

Ross, is a winter tour around Nova Scotia a viable 5 day trip? Maybe with PEI thrown in?

NS is an easy 5-day trip, with time for side-trips. The ferries from Maine are closed in February, so it's definitely an all-driving trip, about 10 hours to the NS border from MA/NH. With a day's break at the end (say, in Halifax), NS could be a 3-day trip, or 4 days with a side-trip to PEI, Fundy or the Cabot Trail. The Maritime provinces are small, like New England states, so it takes very little time to get from A to B (especially now that the TCH and NB-1 are virtually all freeway).

MinorRoadsKill

[LePew]

The Canadian government's Newfoundland Winter Highway driving site finally went active again:

http://www.roads.gov.nl.ca/

Pavement temperature at Goobies is down to 3.7 °C already. Check out the highway cameras too. During rush hour at Pynn's Brook, I actually saw two cars in the same frame.