MCS Engine noise when cold

[caesar]

[quote=Tracie;3734312]Well I had the new Tensioner ( nothing else, chain was fine apparently) done on my MCS last week.
Prior to it being fitted it had rattled on start up a fair few times since new last December, the first rattle was at 600 miles on a minus 2 morning.
The sound could be *forced* if parked on a downward slop overnight, or if I moved it from cold out of a flat garage surface onto the driveway and left for an hour, no matter what the weather was.
Now its been *fixed* the whole engine sounds different to me, whether thats good or bad I don't know yet..to be honest Im not confident but I hope I'm proved wrong
And I agree that it does pull better through the lower rev range and it wil be interesting to see if it uses any oil, so far up to last week when the Tensioner was replaced it had used 1 litre, 3/4 of which the dealer added last week.
So far, so good as I've not heard the rattle.


The problem you had regarding parking on a downward slope was exactly the same as my June 07 build MCS. The tensioner was replaced by the Dealer during May 09......touch wood it's been OK since. The rattle only occurred on the slope, never anywhere else. In July 09 it had it's 1st service at 11k miles and they used Mobil oil not Castrol Edge. Regarding oil consumption....it's been negligible from new. Probably 1-2 litres.

[Tracie]

Fingers crossed then Caesar that is a true fix at last

[Dr Phoo]

Chain tensioner replaced in May on our Works S.No problems to date since the change.

[MIKES111S]

Having read this forum I was dreading getting the cold start noise problem sorted out.
I booked the car in to our local dealer for two days, they provided a loan car and they carried out the work with no problems even though the car only made the noise occasionally.
I think this problem is been blown out of all proportion now that BMW will carry out checks and if required the modification to customers cars that report the noise

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by MIKES111S (original)

Having read this forum I was dreading getting the cold start noise problem sorted out.
I booked the car in to our local dealer for two days, they provided a loan car and they carried out the work with no problems even though the car only made the noise occasionally.
I think this problem is been blown out of all proportion now that BMW will carry out checks and if required the modification to customers cars that report the noise

The engine rattle on my June 07 build MCS appeared during October 07. We had building work being done and the garage was full so I had to park on the slope. The noise happened then and only then, never anywhere else. I discussed it with the Dealer and they were not at all helpful. I found the rattle could be stopped by turning off the engine and restarting, so I was not unduly concerned. I did write to Mini Customer services and they were helpful.

In May 09 I decided to contact the Dealer and they had the car back and kept it overnight. Next day they rang and said a new tensioner had been fitted and it was OK. Touch wood it's been fine since and and pulls much better at low speeds. I think BMW have worked hard to solve the problem, but some of the Dealers are not very helpful. My advice would be to anyone who has the rattle, to contact another Dealer in the area. BMW pay them for fixing the rattle so they make money by doing the job.

[Lawrothegreat]

Quote: Originally Posted by MIKES111S (original)

I think this problem is been blown out of all proportion now that BMW will carry out checks and if required the modification to customers cars that report the noise

I completely agree as I've said before. My R56 MCS suffered from the noise quite badly before its final fix around May 2009 (three times a day or so). It's now covered 45,000 miles and there's no sign of premature engine wear. I'm not aware of a single case of engine failure confirmed to be connected with this problem. As annoying as it is, it only appears to be a noise.

[Martin F]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

I completely agree as I've said before. My R56 MCS suffered from the noise quite badly before its final fix around May 2009 (three times a day or so). It's now covered 45,000 miles and there's no sign of premature engine wear. I'm not aware of a single case of engine failure confirmed to be connected with this problem. As annoying as it is, it only appears to be a noise.

I agree too. My R56 was fixed in May 2009. No problems since.

[movit]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

I completely agree as I've said before. My R56 MCS suffered from the noise quite badly before its final fix around May 2009 (three times a day or so). It's now covered 45,000 miles and there's no sign of premature engine wear. I'm not aware of a single case of engine failure confirmed to be connected with this problem. As annoying as it is, it only appears to be a noise.

I have to disagree because as in our case there was significant engine wear which caused engine failure. Although we have had all the available fixes none has helped and we had an engine failure resulting in receiving a new engine. So I do believe that damage can be caused or is caused prior to the cars first fixes or even beyond if the fixes don't help. We are thankful to our dealer who decided to sort it out themselves although they would not confirm or tell what they had encountered.

[Lawrothegreat]

Quote: Originally Posted by movit (original)

I have to disagree because as in our case there was significant engine wear which caused engine failure. Although we have had all the available fixes none has helped and we had an engine failure resulting in receiving a new engine. So I do believe that damage can be caused or is caused prior to the cars first fixes or even beyond if the fixes don't help. We are thankful to our dealer who decided to sort it out themselves although they would not confirm or tell what they had encountered.

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. A large majority of R56 MCS engines have the problem, and with any mass produced engine there will be a number of isolated engine failures. It doesn't surprise me that there are engine failures, where owners had experienced the noise. This doesn't automatically imply, however, that the source behind the noise is the cause, and engine failure was the effect. Was the engine independently inspected, e.g., the engine failure was completely attributed to the cold start problem, and not another manufacturing defect? It might be I have to eat my hat.......

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

I'm sorry to hear of your problems. A large majority of R56 MCS engines have the problem, and with any mass produced engine there will be a number of isolated engine failures. It doesn't surprise me that there are engine failures, where owners had experienced the noise. This doesn't automatically imply, however, that the source behind the noise is the cause, and engine failure was the effect. Was the engine independently inspected, e.g., the engine failure was completely attributed to the cold start problem, and not another manufacturing defect? It might be I have to eat my hat.......

Tend to agree with Lawrothegreat on this, "***'s law" means there will always be a chance of something going wrong. With era of mass production this will occur. I don't think the rattle alone causes engine damage, the cause could be attributed to the driving habits of the owner.

[movit]

Dear Lawrothegreat and Caesar, I do understand you guys that these things could happen with mass production. It's also clear that the last fix has helped many owners. In our case the car went in and received repeatedly official fixes + relevant services without any permanent result this year. When the rattle suddenly became permanent I brought the car to the dealer who then dismantled the engine as far as the warranty aloud them to. I understood that their findings where briefed to MINI but they could not tell my any details other then that the engine had sufficient wear out in order to be replaced but the most important part that it was not driver related, according to the dealer. Keeping this in mind I believe that something was/went wrong as we were helped a year after the first complaints. I also do hope that I and all other MINI colleagues stay trouble free as these are costly repairs.

[Lawrothegreat]

Hi moveit,

I wasn't suggesting in your case it would be driver related. I see from your previous posts, your engine has been fixed on three occasions. Is it not possible that the dealer could have previously dismantled your engine, reassembling it in an incompetent fashion, enough for it to lead to premature engine failure? Maybe they told you it was related to the cold noise.

Sorry, but I'm just not convinced on this one. When I had the noise really bad (three times a day) it sounded as though the engine was literally going to blow. After the last fix, and 10,000 miles later you would expect my engine to be on its last legs. In fact it's quieter and smoother than ever.

Again, as I've previously said I have yet to see any real evidence (an independent inspection of some form) that the cause behind the noise can lead to engine failure.

As I've previously said I might need to eat my hat on this one, but, I'm just not willing to assume the worst because it's leaving too many owners with concern and worry when it could be unnecessary.

[S8RAH]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

with any mass produced engine there will be a number of isolated engine failures.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Honda V-tec engine, I'm advised there has never been a failure yet. We obviously have the wrong engines fitted in our MCSs.

On a more serious note, and again this is second hand knowledge so don't shoot me, I was told that there have been no timing chain failures in R56 MINIs other than in MCS models. Given that the noise has been isolated to this area, I think it may not be sheer coincidence.

A couple of cars that have had the latest and greatest fix still have a cold start rattle of sorts though it has been reduced to a run time of under 5 secs and I for one am not concerned anymore. However , there are still 'cherished' MCSs being re-sold with the rattle- not really acceptable, all MCSs should be checked to allay any fears and restore some confidence in the model. If it gets a bad rep it may affect our residuals down the line then, no doubt, we will be a bit less complacent about the issue.

[caesar]

Quote: Originally Posted by S8RAH (original)

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Honda V-tec engine, I'm advised there has never been a failure yet. We obviously have the wrong engines fitted in our MCSs.

On a more serious note, and again this is second hand knowledge so don't shoot me, I was told that there have been no timing chain failures in R56 MINIs other than in MCS models. Given that the noise has been isolated to this area, I think it may not be sheer coincidence.

A couple of cars that have had the latest and greatest fix still have a cold start rattle of sorts though it has been reduced to a run time of under 5 secs and I for one am not concerned anymore. However , there are still 'cherished' MCSs being re-sold with the rattle- not really acceptable, all MCSs should be checked to allay any fears and restore some confidence in the model. If it gets a bad rep it may affect our residuals down the line then, no doubt, we will be a bit less complacent about the issue.

That's not strictly true, I had a Civic Type-R prior to buying an MCS. I was a member of the Type-R Forum and there were cases where an engine developed faults. There were also cases of excessive oil consumption.

Another problem was if you started it up from cold, and moved it a few yards say for cleaning....and started it up after you had finished, the engine ran rough for a while. To stop this happening I used to drive it around the block till it was warm, and then clean it. This was my only complaint apart from the fact it drank petrol like an alcoholic!

[duckson]

I had a EP3 CTR from new 2002 to 2004 and didnt have any of those problems, dont recall ever reading about the running rough issue either, it could use some oil (the VTEC system needed enough oil in the system for it to work). MPG wasnt to bad, around 30mpg usually on a mixed drive.
When talking of failures they are talking about the VTEC system IIRC, not the engine as a whole.