MCS Engine noise when cold

[Tara&Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fozzy (original)

My garage say it's a characteristic of the engine.

The took a suction pump off the engine where the timing chain is; It stopped rattling.

They put it on, it started rattling again; that was their explanation.

Mini now say that because the garage (dealer) say it's a characteristic that it is the end of the matter.

I've had x2 tensioner chains.

New timing chain.

Replacement pneumatic valves.

No software updates.

I hate these guys!!!!

A "Characteristic"? That's "Bollox"! You just need the latest longer (10mm) hydraulic timing chain tensioner piston, the longer piston pushes the chain out further stopping it rattling and keeping the timing 100% spot on.

If your dealer won't replace your dodgy timing chain tensioner under warranty, you can do it yourself in about an hour. You need a 17mm spanner and this part...

Timing Chain Tensioner (December 2009 on) - R56 at minigenuineparts.co.uk Mini Genuine Parts Mini Servicing Parts & Spares, BM11.31.7.607.551, This is the latest replacement timing chain tensioner fitted from December 2009 to get rid of t

The last three digits of the BMW part number is 551.

We had a two year battle with our dealer over the dodgy tensioner piston, until they fitted the latest longer one in July this year and since then we've had no rattles etc and the engine has been great.

That is until about a week ago when the engine started pinking under load, but I think I may have cured it with a can of BG44K in the fuel tank? Results to be posted soon.

P.

[KenL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fozzy (original)

My garage say it's a characteristic of the engine.

The took a suction pump off the engine where the timing chain is; It stopped rattling.

They put it on, it started rattling again; that was their explanation.

Mini now say that because the garage (dealer) say it's a characteristic that it is the end of the matter.

I've had x2 tensioner chains.

New timing chain.

Replacement pneumatic valves.

No software updates.

I hate these guys!!!!

Hi,

I assume we are talking about the cold start rattle that disappears a minute or so after start up?

What dealer are you using? This is total nonsense as there is plenty documentation regarding this FAULT.

Did the dealer say that MINI said this or have you been in contact with MINI?

If this is a characteristic, ask MINI why they have issued several "PUMA" instructions to dealers on how to fix it?

Here is a perfect example: MotoringFile Archive MINI Solves R55/R56/R57 MCS Cold Start Problem (Again)

Good Luck, KenL

[Rocco9999]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnny6 (original)

Rocco what dealer have you used?? It seems some dealers are claiming there is no problem and others are bending over backwards to sort the issue. I'd like to take my MINI to a dealer who accepts theres an issue even if that means travelling.

Good point!
Its Coopers in Chelmsford, Essex.

They were ok the first time, they just needed to hear the issue which can be a challenge! But the first replacement only made a slight difference.

When I mentioned it a second time, they already knew about the upgraded part and the remap!

The guy was really polite too, his name was......damn it i've forgotten....

[stono jnr]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocco9999 (original)

Good point!
Its Coopers in Chelmsford, Essex.

They were ok the first time, they just needed to hear the issue which can be a challenge! But the first replacement only made a slight difference.

When I mentioned it a second time, they already knew about the upgraded part and the remap!

well dont try Coopers in Ipswich, never understand how garages in the same group can behave so differently, but i explained the noise I was getting to them and was treated to a "whats that, never heard of that problem" till I started quoting the MINI advisory numbers and suddenly it was like "oh you mean THAT cold start rattle noise"

so they have the car for a whole day to carry out a service and report back to me nothing found, couldnt hear it, all with a you must be making it up or cars are meant to be noisy kind of attitude, but I couldnt pick up the car that night so left it overnight with them

next morning go down to collect the car, as Id been told the previous day it had been ready to collect, they just needed to clean it, only to be told overnight they had decided they needed to strip all the engine timing bits down to take a bundle of measurements to feed back to MINI UK and then push it through a 3hr test cycle just to make absolutely certain they couldnt find the problem that the previous whole day they had the car they'd said couldnt be found

so Ive no idea what they are doing to the car now, as Ive not heard anyone else had theirs subjected to a 3hr test cycle for this, why they had this sudden change of heart overnight, or even if they intend fixing anything as they keep telling me its all just to make sure it doesnt have the problem, not that they are looking to fix anything

you'd have thought this was a simple problem for dealers to handle, was the car built during the right timeframe, has it had the replacement parts fitted, is the customer complaining about it.

whereas what seems to happen is deny the problem exists unless the customer pushes hard to get it noticed, and then they set about assessing the minimum amount of work required to simply patch it up and hope the customer then forgets about it.

stonojnr

[Rocco9999]

Quote: Originally Posted by stono jnr (original)

"whats that, never heard of that problem" till I started quoting the MINI advisory numbers and suddenly it was like "oh you mean THAT cold start rattle noise" stonojnr

they make me chucle sometimes; "oh that issue"

[Rocco9999]

yes i've never understood that attitude of denying the issue.
All dealers get paid by the OEM to fix warrenty issues!

[sony]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocco9999 (original)

yes i've never understood that attitude of denying the issue.
All dealers get paid by the OEM to fix warrenty issues!

exactly, why do they cause such a fuss?

[johnny6]

What is the MINI advisory numbers? I feel this information will help my case with Heathrow MINI.

[Rocco9999]

Quote: Originally Posted by sony (original)

exactly, why do they cause such a fuss?

some kind of misplaced pride?

[Tara&Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocco9999 (original)

some kind of misplaced pride?

It's called "plausible denial". If you say "no" for long enough and loud enough, people will start to believe you!

Put yourself in Mini's position, they're trying to sell a product with a first rate price tag, but a third rate build quality. It's like spraying over rust, eventually the rust will appear. Same with the N14 engine, now that some of the engines are over three years old and have done more than 30k miles, problems due to poor design are starting to appear, such as the premature coking up of the cylinder heads.

I wonder how many sales Mini have lost after potential buyers have read on-line about the problems with the timing chain and overall crap build quality of the 2nd generation Mini's?

P.

[Rocco9999]

I don't know that the problem is soooooo bad, but I take your points...

[stono jnr]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnny6 (original)

What is the MINI advisory numbers? I feel this information will help my case with Heathrow MINI.

they should be in this thread somewhere, thats where I got mine from but use a combination of PuMA 10686850-13 or modified tensioner part# 11.31.7.598.956, they do know about it, they just need to feel that you know enough about it I think.

fwiw mines been changed now to the modified tensioner, but I couldnt get out of them what else they did whether they included the guides and sprockets or anything else as well, and frankly it still sounds a touch rattly, and felt a bit flat too, but will have to see how it progresses

stonojnr

[witches70]

i had mine changed at cooper ipswich it was fine all summer but now its starting to rattle again. So it should be interesting what they say this time. Since i got the car in feb its been a total disaster. They just changed all the valves and done all the de coking that they denied there had ever been a problem until i proved it to them. im wondering if the colchester branch is any better i may in there instead

[malcforrest]

Well today I dropped mines off again with Peter Vardy Seafield, and asked to see a technician so I could playback the recorded rattle. He says it's either the tensioner or vacuum pump which has been known to cause a similar sound. And low and behold when I get a call from the Senior Workshop manager, he asks ' can we keep you car so we can strip it down and check the parts we've replaced are the updated parts. We've also got newer versions released so just to be sure what is causing the fault' hmm

[KenL]

Quote: Originally Posted by malcforrest (original)

Well today I dropped mines off again with Peter Vardy Seafield, and asked to see a technician so I could playback the recorded rattle. He says it's either the tensioner or vacuum pump which has been known to cause a similar sound. And low and behold when I get a call from the Senior Workshop manager, he asks ' can we keep you car so we can strip it down and check the parts we've replaced are the updated parts. We've also got newer versions released so just to be sure what is causing the fault' hmm

My car has also been into the garage you mention. All they did was replace the tensioner. The rattle has occurred again (but a lot quieter). I've got a video clip and am about to send that it in to them.

Please could you get a detailed breakdown of what they have done to your's when you get it back?

Thanks, KenL